KAREN: Welcome back to the show, ladies. Today, I have the pleasure of interviewing Tara Menzies from Christian Hypnobirthing.
You may recognize her beautiful Australian voice, if you've ever listened to any of her tracks, which I love and are available on my e course. So if you've taken my course as a student, you have heard her and maybe even she has spoken to you in your own labour. So welcome to the show, Tara.
TARA: Thank you so much, Karen.
It's such a joy to be with you today. Thank you for having me.
KAREN: Oh, I'm so excited for this interview. I know we've talked about it for months and we've actually been friends. So, so to speak across the ocean for many years now, I would say, and just connected as we could, and we collaborate on a lot of things and, you know.
Tara, you have just been so generous to offer your tracks to my students. And so I just, I want to start off by saying thank you for that because you have impacted through your app and your voice and your work so many women's birth experiences. And it truly is inspirational to, to hear the stories and the testimonies that come back from women who speak so highly of how your tracks and your meditations that are beautifully faith based have impacted them in their birth experience.
TARA: Oh, thank you, Karen. That's so touching. That's like really like, oh my gosh, that's really, really beautiful of you to say. Thank you so much.
KAREN: It's true. I mean, when I was creating my course, I remember thinking, I really want to have like a component of this that is meditative that, you know, kind of like hypnobirthing, but not hypnosis based really, because I knew I wanted my course to be faith based when I found you, I realized, Oh, I don't have to create it.
it already exists. This woman with her beautiful voice is like you created exactly what I had the vision to include in my course. And so I'm so grateful since then that it has worked to, to offer that. And that we were able to just get the message out there and everything you teach and talk about is just so in alignment with what I teach at Pain Free Birth about God being so involved and so present and birth not having to be painful and traumatic and agonizing, and that we have power with our minds to influence our labors.
And so I would love to hear how you discovered Christian hypnobirthing, how you created it and how did it come to be? Why did you create Christian hypnobirthing?
TARA: Thank you. Well, I it was when I was pregnant with my first son, Charlie, I was incredibly anxious. Because we had had three previous losses early in pregnancy and which I just never expected.
And so when I got pregnant with Charlie, I was just really struggling. and I was talking to my sister in law about that. how anxious I was and she, she said, Oh, have you heard of hypnobirthing? It's really good for anxiety and relaxation. And as a Christian, when I first heard that word, I was a bit like, Oh, I don't know like hypnobirthing.
Like that sounds a bit like. Is it like hypnotizing you or and then I looked into it and was grateful to find that it wasn't, you know, some kind of mind control or like a man on the stage, like swinging a pocket watch in front of your face or anything. Um, That is
KAREN: the stereotype you think about though.
Like that's, that was my impression too,
TARA: for a long time. And it's like, to be honest. I think it would be so helpful if the name wasn't hypnobirthing because it really puts off people or it kind of confuses people as to what it actually is. Essentially, all it is, is deep relaxation.
Like that's what it is. And then the use of like Positive words around birth to help create a positive mindset around birth. So the more I looked into it, the more I researched it. And this is the same with anything you're afraid of. Like I often, I would always say, if you're afraid of something, research it, like look into it deeper, pursue it and be like, Oh, It's actually not nearly as scary as I thought it was going to be.
I tell myself this because I get like scared of lots of things. Like for instance, I love surfing, but I get scared of sharks and like the more research I've done into sharks. It's helped to alleviate the fear. So it's just really amazing when you actually watch videos of people swimming with sharks and all of this stuff.
Anyway, I won't go get sidetracked. So I started looking into it and I started using some different hypnobirthing apps, but I just felt like none of them really resonated with my faith. It was more like there were just words here and there that I'd find myself having to change, like if it said the universe or your inner goddess or whatever.
if it works for you, great. But for me personally, I was having to like, just change the language to resonate with my beliefs. And I just kept feeling like, gosh, it would be wonderful. If there was something that had all these exercises, you know, the breathing exercises, the visualization exercises, positive affirmations, but that incorporated.
And so I Googled Christian hypnobirthing and nothing existed. And I was just like, someone should make that like, that would be really helpful. And it felt like one of those moments, that was like, God being like, Please do this job, you know, like, well, here's something that's for you.
Or, and so I, I moved on, I was, you know, using different different Christian things. Like I read a Christian book on birth that was helpful and I know it's helped a lot of people, but there were aspects of it that actually ended up not being super helpful for me because in When I ended up going into the birth center, the birth center was full and I had to go to the labor ward.
And it just really threw my, like my birth plans and the book is all like, you know, if you have enough faith and you'll have this phenomenal pain free birth, but. I was then experiencing a lot of pain and then as a result of that, I was like, you know, maybe I'm not having enough faith. And I started like getting down on myself.
And yeah, It caused in some ways, some issues where I just really feel like it's so important for women to know that like, yeah, if you're, if your birth isn't easy, it's not because you've had a lack of faith, you know, like it's really like, there are all kinds of things going on in, in birth that can mean that you, experience the sensations in a much stronger way because that have nothing to do with faith.
For instance, like, you know, bright lights, like will impact your oxytocin, you know, being pushed into interventions that you don't want to have will Increase adrenaline and decrease oxygen, you know, there's so much going on there on a physiological level. And so I feel like just saying to people, like, just have enough faith is, is can be damaging for people that it works for.
It's great. But I just know for me personally, it actually, in that moment in the hospital when they were like pushing me into having like breaking my waters and, you know, Hooking me up to an IV and all these things that I'd said I didn't want to do, but I wasn't like prepared for just how strong the, I don't want to say coercion, but that's kind of like, I mean, what it was.
That is really the word
KAREN: though.
TARA: Yeah. And it was hard. It was hard. And my husband was amazing. He. know, you did like hours and hours of light touch massage. Like, so grateful. And I didn't end up, you know, I, I really, you know, we continued to pray through that birth and we really felt not to have An epidural despite the fact they kept on telling me that I'd need to have it and sort of pushing me to have it.
And I'm so grateful that, that I didn't let them get on top of me. Cause I was, the woman was like, you will need drugs. I'm sorry. But like, and she said to my husband, she was just like, I know you don't want her to have them, but she will need them. Like just all this language that is just so, it just degrades your own
KAREN: strength.
TARA: Yeah. And I hit like a breaking point in that birth where it became so overwhelming and I just, it's really hard. I feel like I don't even know where I was. I was like, was I in the bathroom at this point? But like, cause I knew I was holding onto the pole that was attached to the like IV drip and kind of using that as a like makeshift birth pole.
But I, yeah, I just remember having this spiritual experience where I felt. I felt like, why is all of this happening? Like, I felt like God had abandoned me and I suddenly was like, oh no, like he's been with me the whole time. But there are other things that are going on here. And I don't know what, like something happened where it was like this strength just came into me and it was like, I just knew.
That I could do it and that mind shift of just feeling all that strength. And all of a sudden, like labor started progressing so much faster. I started getting the urge to push. I mean, I was probably in transition when I had this whole experience and then. the midwife. I was like, can you check me again?
Like, I feel like he's coming. And she was like, I can't, I'm not going to check you for another four hours. And I was like, that's fine. But I think his head is here. And, and so I got down on my knees and like, and then she's like, Oh my gosh. And runs out of the room and is like getting stuff and comes back.
And, and yeah, and I gave birth to him on my knees in the, in the labor ward. And, and that was like, it was really. A very strong experience, very powerful. But I remember this overwhelming feeling afterwards of like, I really could have used some tools to help me, you know? and I was like, Christian women deserve to have, you know, Hypnobirthing, you know, like they deserve to have those exercises but that align with them, you know, that align with their faith.
And it just kept coming into my mind in the, in the sort of next days. And I actually was like, maybe I'll look up how much it costs to make an app. And I Googled it and it said like 40, 000 or something. And my husband and I had no money at the time. And then I was in bed breastfeeding Charlie and I was listening to Matthew 19, 26 came on where it says, Jesus looked at them and said, with man, this is impossible, but with God, all things are possible.
And I, I'd heard it before, but I'd never really heard it before. Like it was one of those moments where I was like, What? And then I skipped back and I listened to it again. And I, I was just like, that is mind blowing. Like, and, and something, and this is why like, I love the power of words, because if I hadn't heard that phrase right at that moment, maybe I never would have made the app, you know, like, because the power of an encouraging word over you, like when you look back at your life and you think how much.
Things have impacted you that someone said equally the power of a negative or discouraging word, you know, like when someone said something that's shut you down, like they literally move our lives in different directions. And that's why it's so important to be aware of what you allow in, you know, and really Like protect your space as much as possible.
And even, you know, sometimes you can't protect yourself from stuff that people say, they're just gonna say it, but to have that inner spiritual protection and knowing that that's just them, like that's just something they've said. But it doesn't mean it's true. It doesn't mean you have to take it in or take it on board.
Yeah, I mean sometimes there's obviously like things that people say that you can be like, oh, maybe I need to learn something here, or maybe I need to grow, but. If it's just something that's coming from their own hate or anger or issues, then that's really not about you, you know? So in this moment, listening to that, I was like, well, if God wants me to make this.
App, then it must be possible because all things are possible with God. So I then started looking into like creating apps for free and I found this software that was free and I contacted them and was like, hi, I don't have any coding experience. Can I use it? And they're like, yeah, it's like totally fine.
It was just a very long, painful process. And I did it when Charlie was napping or at night after he was in bed. And it was like a very long, slow step by step process. It took me about six months to create it and just putting together all the, you know, all my favorite scriptures or beautiful and, and sort of incorporating writing all the tracks.
You know, I poured so much love into those tracks. And they really, and it was funny because I recorded them all and I got to the end of recording them and I listened back and I was like, this is not relaxing enough. And I had to re record the whole. Really? Because because listening to them, it was just too, it was just too kind of like, yeah.
So yeah, it was too, and also just like. I just felt like I wasn't, I didn't feel relaxed listening. And so,
KAREN: yeah, that's important. I realized
TARA: I had to really slow it down and soft, because you can hear me now like talking like I don't talk the way I, the app is, you know, like much were soothing
KAREN: and soft and the app, it's just very
TARA: gentle and, yeah.
And so I re recorded all of the tracks and and then I got pregnant with Sam the next month, which was one of those surprises where like, cause it had taken us so long to get pregnant with Charlie.
We, we just weren't expecting. And how far apart were they?
KAREN: They're 17 months apart. So they're pretty close. I love that this whole thing was a faith journey for you. I didn't know you knew nothing about apps or coding when you created. Christian hypnobirthing like that just speaks so much to this as a testimony of God, that this is something that had to exist.
And God was like, Hey, I I'm dropping this dream in your heart. You see the need. And I think that's how so many. businesses and inventions and companies are created is because someone sees a need they see that there's a problem on the earth that needs to be solved. It needs a solution. We see it because we experienced it.
And we say, this has to exist. And so much of your story I'm connecting to and relating to because I I looked at the same birth scene. I read the same book you read in your childbirth. I'm guessing it was Supernatural Childbirth, right? And it was all about your faith and how you had to have faith and it had all these prayers in it.
And it, it did build my faith. Like it was, it was the like resource that I was like, yes, it actually gave me the confidence to believe for it. a pain free birth myself. And I also saw so many women reading that book, going into labor, and feeling the same things you felt like, Oh my gosh, I'm a failure because I experienced pain.
And that means I didn't have enough faith. And I saw this the devastation and the brokenness they felt afterwards after their birth didn't go the way they want. And they had such high hopes after reading this book. And I realized something has to exist to teach women not just to have faith, but also to understand how their body works and the physiology of birth and the science behind it, because you can have A ton of faith, but if you don't understand how oxytocin works and how to release oxytocin, and like you said, all the things that can impact your oxytocin and your hormonal physiology, like the lights and the nurse that's being rude and telling you, oh, you're gonna need, you're gonna have to get the epidural, honey, and you're telling your husband that, like, of course that's going to impact us.
If we don't understand that, we can have all the faith in the world. But we're going to get discouraged. We're going to feel like a failure. We're going to feel hopeless when that contraction feels painful. And I wanted to give women something that was like both. I wanted to marry the faith and the science and give it to women and go, this is how God created your body.
And we have such a responsibility to steward. What's happening in our heart and in our mind and in our spirit and labor and what you created. It's like God birthed this through you through your experience of knowing like, Oh, I really could have used this in my birth and, and recognizing you know what women deserve this like.
That was the same feeling I had, like, I realized through a good birth experience, like, every woman deserves to have this kind of birth, to experience how good it can be. And I just believe God gives us these tools to, like, say, okay, whether it was through a bad experience or a good experience, like, this is something that needs to be birthed, no pun intended, like, into the earth, like, this is an idea, a solution
that needs to exist. And I just love hearing the backstory and how. It all connected so much to what your experience was in birth and wanting to create something for women and learning coding, learning app creation, like that's not something I would ever want to try. So like, thank you for doing that work to put in the time and the late nights of, of learning something that, that you felt God called you to.
I just, I love that. how did your second birth go after? Creating this app and having those tools.
TARA: Thank you. Well,I mean, it was so funny. It was such a night and day experience. sometimes I feel like God has a sense of humor with some of the things we actually planned to go to a different birth center because we were like this one.
is never full this birth center. So we're going to go to this one instead so that I can have my beautiful birth center birth. So we went again to the birth center and it was full again.
And I mean, it was just hilarious because the same one was full again. No, a different birth center. The one that there's like, they said is like never full. I'd actually made the app at this stage and I, Was listening to the tracks every day as I went to sleep, probably for like maybe I dunno, I think it must've been at least 10 weeks in the lead up to, to labor and, and they were just so ingrained.
Like I felt so I just felt so like peaceful within, like I just felt this sort of, it was so funny. Cause when we got to the birth center and they were like, Oh, it's full. You'll have to go down to the labor ward. My husband and I laugh. We were like, of course it is. I just had this like, no matter what happens, you know, nothing is going to pull me out of this faith filled state that I'm in right now.
Like bring it at me. Like, I literally felt like that. I just felt like whatever you've got. Come bring it up. I'm good. Like I'm just like staying in this sort of Cocoon of calm with the holy spirit, you know so we go down to the labor ward and They wanted to, to do a vaginal exam again, didn't know that you could like say no to them.
But I had the vagina exam. They said, and, and then there was a student there. She was like, Oh, can I, can I try to, I'm like, yeah, anyone else want to get in here, get in here. I could just do it like she's testing me. The other woman's testing me. And they were, they determined that they thought I was about two centimeters.
So they thought I wasn't in active labor and they were going to send me home. And I really wanted to stay. And then they were like, okay, well, we'll let you stay in a waiting room. And so I was in the waiting room. We turned the lights off. My husband had a little sleep and I just sat there listening to the and praying and just really like.
I just felt so relaxed in the, every time a surge came on, I just did the breathing through it. And then at one point I started, I felt like I needed to get up on the they'd brought in a like sort of little movable bed. And I, I got up on that and was like doing these cat cow type movements, like swaying in and out.
And like, yeah. And then I felt a push on the wall. So I was like pushing on the wall and then all of a sudden I had the like, you know, Oh, I really have to go to the toilet, which is normally a baby. And so I went to the bathroom. My husband calls the midwife and then she comes in with a wheelchair to take me to the labor room and I was already giving birth and he was They recorded it as 12 minutes of active labor and eight minutes of pushing and he was born on call which was crazy.
My husband was like slightly terrified. Cause he was like, Oh my gosh, like, why does he look like that? And then he like kicked the bag and it broke and he came out and my husband was deeply relieved. He was like, it's an alien. He was like, what is this? I don't know. Yeah. He wasn't,
KAREN: that's incredible.
12 minutes of active labor and eight minutes of pushing. I mean, that's what they
TARA: recorded it as, but it definitely would have been longer. I imagine it was like probably longer in that it was, I was there like relaxing and everything. And, but the great thing was because they didn't think I was an active labor, they just left us alone. You know? So we were just in darkness.
And I, and it was just perfect. You know, like you want like that dark private environment that's calm. And because they weren't kind of coming in and checking me all the time, I was just able to progress sitting there alone in the dark and, and just being able to like trust, you know, where I felt like those God given birthing instincts, like just moving in the way I felt to move and everything.
It was such an, a crazy experience. And I think for me. It really was such a funny moment of being like, wow, like this really works, you know, like as in like the relaxation really does work. Like it's not just you know, it's, it's, yeah, it's very powerful. and this is the thing that's really important.
It's not because hypnobirthing is powerful. It's because God has miraculously designed our bodies for birth. And when we honor the environment and everything that we, we need, and also obviously like take time to kind of work through those fears, because like, it's not just environment, you can have a beautiful environment, but if you've got all kinds of stuff coming up for you internally that that's going to impact, you know, fight or flight and all of those the fear, tension, pain cycle.
So it is. It's, it's obviously much more complex than just being like, just do hypnobirthing and it's all going to be great. Like it, there's a lot going on there, but it was just a realization of like, wow. Like having this just support and these exercises and being able to like have a mental focus to help support me to stay in shape.
Well, really in that faith filled state just helped so much and it made it so manageable and I would say I only really felt discomfort, like proper discomfort I guess really when crowning and also during transition, it was very intense, like very intense sensations, very strong. You know, and it was real work.
Like this is the thing I think's also important. Like. People sort of sometimes think that they're not going to feel anything or something. It's not that at all. Like you feel a lot, your body's doing a huge amount of work. And it can be very, very strong, but it was totally manageable. It never felt that the way I felt in my first birth, which was like someone save me from this nightmare.
Like that's how my first birth felt. Whereas this one was just like, I was so, I was like, Oh my gosh, like that was just so much easier. And people sometimes say like, Oh, that's just cause second births are easier. That's not always the case. You know, like sometimes second births are harder. I really do feel like it made such a massive, difference.
And and also like, I don't want to like make out like birth isn't you know, birth can be incredibly different for everyone. But just for me in that moment, I was like, this is amazing. This really does work. And I was so grateful I got to experience it myself instead of it just being a thing of like making it and then never experiencing using it.
Like really, like it really, really helped.
KAREN: I love that, and it's, so much of it is the power of our mindset and our inner state. and to think that you were building your, Your piece throughout your whole pregnancy like it wasn't just in even in that moment that you were able to remain calm which I believe that's true to like you had those tools in labor you had the right environment, but you also had this like unshakable confidence it's like okay bring it on like baby like I'm good I got this like we're gonna laugh at the fact that this is gonna we have to go to the labor ward again like someone who is unprepared.
Or still in that trauma in their body would have responded very differently. They would spiral out like, Oh no, it's happening again. This thing that I feared the most, you know, we can create meanings about anything and those meanings create thoughts and emotions. Those thoughts and emotions release hormones.
Those hormones affect our labor. And yet you had cultivated this piece throughout your whole pregnancy so that These things that traumatized you in your first labor were like, you were laughing them off in your second, and then you're there in this room, like everyone left you alone, someone else may think, Oh my gosh, I'm abandoned, like, I feel in this dark, scary room, but you were like, No, I'm, I'm in control.
I'm in peace. I'm listening to my tracks. And it's like, I kind of get this picture, like you're building a scaffolding inside of you. And I kind of see this as every, it's pregnant woman kind of goes through this process in pregnancy. And I had sort of this, I don't know if, if I felt like I was doing this when I was preparing to, but it's like, you're building this, this structure, this strength inside you.
And nobody sees it from the outside, like it's a scaffolding in you. And you feed it with what you're feeding your soul, like you're listening to your tracks that are encouraging you and building you up, or you're reading books that are positive or stories that are positive. And it all feeds your Your spirit and your heart so that by the time you get to labor, you're like, Oh, I got this.
And it takes a lot to shift a woman out of her confidence when she has that kind of strength on the inside. And to have that also reinforced, like audibly through these tracks in real time, because we still have doubts. We still, slip on and trip up or we get afraid and we get scared.
Yeah. in labor, even with all the work we've done. And I just love that what you've created is so like live. It's so active in that moment and speaking words of life and encouragement to you in the moment you need it the most. And in a moment where women are the most vulnerable to suggestion or fear or anxiety.
And. the fact that you got to experience your own work firsthand, like in your first birth, having that fear, having it not go the way you would want, seeing the need, creating the thing, and then actually using it. It's just a beautiful story of like, wow, and also how your mindset shift, even in that moment shifted so much that you We're like, Oh, I got this and it just like baby came so quickly when you're in that state when and yes, we could say like second babies come faster.
That was probably a part of it too. But if you were in fear, and you were locked up and you're anxious, it would not have happened that quickly. It would have been,
TARA: yeah, it would
KAREN: have been a longer journey or more painful journey. did you have the baby in that room or did they even get you to?
No, no, I
TARA: had the baby in the waiting room. They passed him through my legs. And honestly, I was really like, hello, like it was like such a surprise, you know, because I really didn't think I could have been anywhere near. Ready to give birth just because of how manageable it was, you know, like I felt like I kept being like, Oh, I've still got a good another 10 hours to go at least, you know because it just felt so I don't know, just so manageable, you know, and for me, I feel like really what those tracks for me.
Is they built in this kind of like spiritual resilience? Cause I feel like that's really what we're called to be. You know, like obviously like hypnobirthing is helpful cause it, it helps you to relax and everything. But for me, there's like another level. That comes from actually bringing faith in, which is like, you're not facing this alone.
God is with you no matter what you go through. And even if that labor is really hard, because, you know, for some people, for whatever reason, like it doesn't matter how much relaxation or, you know, everyone has different journeys. Yeah. And that's why, like, I would never want to try and say like, oh, well, faith, if you have enough faith.
Then you're going to have this perfect birth. Cause sometimes, you know, with like some of our app users, there have been cases where her mom's been giving birth at home, the umbilical cord's been around the baby and around its leg. And it's just not moving down. So she's had to go in to the hospital and transfer to the hospital and have a cesarean because baby just could not move down.
Obviously it's quite rare, but it does happen. And she said that in that moment. And what came to her was the affirmation in the app, I accept the path that God has for this baby's birth. And We don't know what God's doing in and through that birth, you know, like there are things that, that, but no matter what happens, we know that he's with us, you know?
And like, that's the beautiful thing is like, that for me was like, just building that resilience of knowing that no matter what I face, I'm I don't face it alone and that he's there with me, you know, and I feel like that really is for me the difference between what we do and what traditional hypnobirthing is, I would say.
KAREN: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And it's so true. It's like you, you reach this point where it's got to be more than just yourself, you know, it, you have to reach out for something greater than you and having God show up and having him presence there so clearly and knowing like I can trust that whatever happens, he's got me and that he is that there's this grace empowering us.
It's not just in our own strength. We don't have to muscle through this, but there's like this empowerment of God. And our faith is connecting to God in that way, in a very tangible, real way.
TARA: You know, the verse the Psalm, be still and know that I am God.
Yeah. The original Hebrew for the words, be still is the word Rapha and It could also be translated as to let go, to release, to make yourself weak. And I just keep coming back to that again and again because I think it's so powerful for labor, like to be able to let go, to release, you know, to make yourself weak, even like to know that, you know.
It's we don't birth our babies in our own strength. Like our body is designed to do it. God works through like the, like when you experience, like, obviously you know, like the fetal ejection reflex, it's like, literally feels like the power of God, like pushing out through you and it's not you thinking like, Oh, I have to push my baby.
Like it's. It's being done through you. And in many ways, what we have to do is really release and allow, you know, like allow God to work, allow our bodies to work as they're miraculously designed to work. I try and tell myself this in day to day life, because there are so many things that I try and do in my own power.
Like I try and kind of make sure I'm doing enough and trying enough and being enough, but actually like the stress that comes from that as well. And so I really just try and remember, like, I'll just say to myself, like Rafa, like let go release, you know, and, and just trust, you know, trust God.
Like it's, it's
KAREN: such a different energetic state in your body too. And I think that in the birth world, especially the natural birth community, there's such a a admonition for women to be strong in labor. You know, there's that quote, it's not that birth is painful, it's that women are strong.
And I, I've been meditating on that lately and I have, it keeps coming up and what you're saying is so in alignment. Because what comes up for me is like, what if we didn't have to be strong? What if it wasn't about strength? And it was about softness, about receptivity, about, like you said, weakness. What if in our weakness we are strong?
As the Bible says, and it's, it's such a different energetic state to embody. Oh, I have to be strong and women are strong. We have to persevere through childbirth and almost like grin and bear it and, and pressure, you know, push through versus that surrender, the Rafa. You know, and like
TARA: open surrender, open release.
It is a different, and like, at times there are different states that you go through in labor as well. Like there may be times where like God really does fill you with his strength, you know, there are different moments where you, especially during like transition, when you get that rush of adrenaline coming to like help wake you up and give you the energy for the final part of labor, you know, it's a whole journey.
Like, and It's, it's
KAREN: like everything. It's not, birth is not just one thing. It's so hard because you're right. It's not just, you know, softness and weakness. It's strength too. And it's not just strength and having to. Grin and bear it. It's, it's, it's everything. It's, it's being fully present in whatever sensation you're experiencing and allowing and trusting in that moment.
TARA: Yeah.and knowing that it's, it is different, like you said, like trust, once we get. Out of the fear, you know, once we can kind of learn enough that we really understand how our body is working, you know, so we understand the physiology.
And we understand kind of what's happening in us, then we're able to really kind of allow it as opposed and, and just be in those different states in early labor. I really recommend just like continuing on with your day, you know, like don't make it a thing, like just, but Don't focus on it. I don't know, just like keep doing your normal tasks.
If it's night time and you start feeling surges, I'm always like, go back to bed, like put the, put the tracks on, rest, you know, like I rested for three days with Sammy's birth. Yeah. I had prodromal labor for three nights in a row leading up to that birth. And we
KAREN: get, we get so in our head and so stressed out about that.
It's like, just, Turn, turn the clock around, put the contraction timer down. Like know that that's totally normal and just let it be. And like you said, go on with your day.
TARA: Listening to the tracks just helped me to go back to sleep while I was having those surges and helped me to like rest in between them.
And I just kept being like. my body's doing really good work right now.
KAREN: My
TARA: body's doing great work instead of getting frustrated or like, Oh, why am I like, am I in proper labor or what's going on? You know?
KAREN: Right. It's the meaning you're giving to it. It's like, okay, am I going to complain about being in prodromal labor?
And is this real labor? Is this not, I'm so exhausted. How much sleep have I gotten? I'm up all night. Or My body is doing really good work. Like what an empowering meaning that is that the tracks reinforce, right? Like we don't have to necessarily be the one to come up with it. We can, we can agree with that higher truth and choose that's the meaning I'm going to assign to this experience right now.
Cause we always have a choice. And I think women outsource that choice and we just kind of take whatever life or labor throws at us without realizing, I actually get to choose what meaning I'm going to agree with in this moment. And it can be an empowering one or a disempowering one.
TARA: Yeah, absolutely.
And like, it's amazing when you reflect on how many things like we were talking about earlier, like how the power of words and what people have said to you that is then impacting you all the time. There's this the proverb the power of life and death or the power of life and death is in the tongue.
Yes. I can't remember the exact. Proverb, but I just I think about that a lot because it's like are you speaking life or death over yourself? Are you speaking that over your children over your spouse like of your relationship like it's in everything It's not just in like birth. I always say like all the work that, you know, whether it's my course, the app, the book that I'm writing, all of it is always like for life.
It's not just about birth or postpartum, it's life. You know, these are things that are tools that I use every day. I use the HypnoBirthing breathing almost every day at different points. I was using it at the dinner table the other day because like, for whatever reason, like the boys are fighting and then like my husband starts getting stressed.
And I'm just like.
I'm just like, you know, cause otherwise you start going into it. And I'm like, I can just breathe and then I'm fine. You know? And actually we can like bring it back to, and at dinner, I love to talk about like, what are you grateful for today? Or like sort of like remind, like, bring us back to like, what was your favorite part of the day?
Or, but otherwise if you get pulled into, you know, the stress and the anger, which is so easy, like, and I'm not saying that I don't ever, I mean, obviously I'm a human being and I have moments where I stress out unnecessarily, but I really do use those tools a lot.
KAREN: Yeah, I remember there was a season where I was struggling a lot with insomnia and I had so much anxiety.
And I, I could not fall asleep or if I woke up, I would wake up and not be able to fall back asleep. And I was listening to your Christian Hypnobirthing app, not pregnant at all, like not in labor. I just knew like, this is what my spirit needs to fall asleep and you have such a beautiful voice and I would listen to, I think it was the scriptures track where it's just scriptures.
from the Bible. And it was just such a, it was like the piece I needed to help me fall asleep.
TARA: that's so beautiful to hear.
KAREN: Yeah, it's it's so powerful. And I just I love it. It's it's so like you said, life giving. Tell us about your book. And, and what it's about and where women can find it.
TARA: It is about childbirth. Surprise, surprise. Um, It's uh, yeah, it's really about pregnancy, birth, and postpartum. A lot of research, oh my gosh, it's taken me, I've been writing it for 11 months now, and I am so excited for it to be finished. I am praying that it will be out by like October. It'll definitely be available on Amazon, but probably also Audible and various other book selling outlets. And but yeah, I will post about it.
What's it called? It's, I actually don't know, but it'll probably be something like faith filled childbirth. I imagine we haven't finalized the name yet, but it's a combination of a huge amount of research on birth and, you know, all kinds of statistics to help people make informed choices.
But at the same time, like. Like really I, I love like neuroscience as well. And I really love like combining, like an understanding of faith with neuroscience and how really our brains are wired to want to live in relationship with God. Like every time we do things that, you know, whether it's. Like worship releases, helps to release oxytocin, gratitude sparks, oxytocin, forgiveness, you know, like all these different things that we can incorporate in our lives every day that really Jesus talks about and tells us to do And they are good for us. When we do those things, it, it helps our body to release, feel good hormones. And that impacts our babies so much. Like a lot of the time people think things like. They'll think like, Oh, if I didn't have a perfect, you know, Instagram birth where it was like a home birth in a, in a, like the beautiful tub with all the glittery like lights and everything, which is beautiful.
If you have that, not everyone can have it for whatever reason. And people get really like, can think like, Oh, it all went out the window or I, I or hypnobirthing didn't work. And it's like, well, literally no matter what kind of birth you have. You and your baby benefit from practicing hypnobirthing or practicing relaxation because every time you take that time, you are bathing your baby in oxytocin, melatonin, serotonin, dopamine, your baby's brain is literally affected by this.
Like you can look up studies that show that your baby's brain is wired differently. You know, it's wired more towards language and art and literature and things. Whereas if you are in a constant state of stress, your baby is being bathed in like a cortisol adrenaline, and it's shown that your baby's brain is wired more towards survival, fight or flight.
Like it's literally, and I sometimes feel stressed about that because I feel like I was really stressed in my first pregnancy. And I feel like that has impacted my son and he's a much more anxious child, but As a result of that, I work to really nurture him and be calm for him and do my best to, you know, to regulate myself and help him regulate and be that place of calm and also be understanding when he is just so sensitive about things that you're like inside.
I want to be like. Why are you crying about like, because you don't have enough like tomato sauce or something, you know, there's like things where you're just like, Oh my gosh. But actually when you understand how much our children are impacted by the hormones, our bodies release, it really is helpful.
So to know it is never a waste of time to practice relaxation, practice meditation. Even if you end up having a birth, that's different to the birth you envisioned.
KAREN: Those tools are even more important than to have stress and, and fear and emergency going on around you. Maybe it's necessary. Maybe it's not, whatever the case is, whatever the situation is, having no, having tools like this to calm yourself and release those hormones to actually can are so protective to baby.
And it's absolutely true what you're saying. I have, I teach a whole class on this, on the, on the prenatal psychology and how. Our hormones and our, what we experience while we're pregnant imprint on baby and it's absolutely true. Like I say, the physiology works no matter what happens in your birth.
Like your state of fear or calm and peace is absolutely true. impacting your body and your baby, no matter what happens in your birth. Like it's still happening in your physiology and your hormones, how you're breathing, how you're responding to that, how, and whether you're incorporating that hypnobirthing and that meditative state, even if there's an emergency going on, how, how much more powerful that is to be protective of baby when there's.
you know, quote unquote, something that feels dangerous, but you have the power to calm your own child and protect them with your own hormones and bathing them in oxytocin intentionally. Like how mind blowing is that? I just, I know I could geek out on that with you all day.
TARA: Yeah, totally. And I do think what you said, like, it is so important.
Yeah, like more so if you know that you have to have an induction or you know that you have to have a cesarean and that wasn't what you'd wanted, you wanted to have this beautiful physiological birth. It's like, well, that's an opportunity to step up even more so in practicing those tools. And we've just, I recently like, Oh, it was a while ago, maybe six months ago, I added a faith filled Caesarean track to the app.
Because actually, you know, to have that calm and peace will really help with connection and knowing obviously about gentle Caesarean and that you can, You know, a lot of hospitals will help you to practice, you know, immediate skin to skin, and all those different things that can help it to be a much more connected experience than just whisking the baby away and taking them to do weighing and, you know, rubbing them down and all this stuff immediately.
Like, there are lots of things you can do to make a cesarean birth a faith filled experience as well. And especially like listening to that track and just feeling that love and connection and calm will help you. It will also help potentially to make breastfeeding easier and those kinds of things.
So Yeah, always so great to do the work no matter what, and it is always helping, it's great to remember.
KAREN: Yes, it's, and it's making a difference, and I just want to reiterate what you brought up at the beginning that you're, to break off this mentality that like if something happens in your birth that you weren't planning for, that doesn't mean you're a failure.
And that we can learn these tools, we can prepare for our birth, we can take the courses, practice the breathing, learn the hypnobirthing for our own mental state and for that, for our baby to be the baby in those hormones. Also knowing that. the outcome of your birth doesn't determine or mark you as a failure as a mother or a good or bad mother.
And I just feel like maybe we need to say that. I feel like there's someone that needs to hear that and that your labor is valid no matter what happened and you I really have the incredible blessing from God to partake in preparing for birth and welcoming your baby into this world, regardless of what actually happens and how it all unfolds, that the work is, worth it and that you're doing a good work.
Your body is working hard and you are doing a good work in preparing for that birth. And for anyone healing from a birth that didn't go the way you want, I hope that that, you can take that to heart and know that it wasn't in vain, like all of that work and preparation wasn't in vain
TARA: there's no failure in yeah, there's no woman ever, it's never failed by the system.
There are failed by the system, but no woman ever fails, there's a Mary Cronk quote, some women sometimes need some extra help, you know, like in, in labor, we'll need some extra help. And we can be so grateful that when that extra help is needed, that it's available.
But yeah, I'm, I always think like that thing, like you were talking about earlier, like to choose an empowering meaning. is so important all the time in everything, you know, because like, there's no point in wasting any of your life feeling bad about something that is, has happened in the, I mean, obviously, like if there's healing work that needs to be done there, then definitely get someone to help you.
Like if you need professional. And then there's
KAREN: grief too. Like, I think sometimes we try to like button it all up. Like it has to be perfect. And we have to have the positive meaning. we can have the positive meaning and still give ourselves permission to grieve the birth that didn't go the way we wanted.
And that's also just as valid. Like, there's so much to work through with birth. It's such a poignant, powerful, sacred journey. And I just love that you've created something to help women in real time. And there's not too many resources that do that. Like we can read all the books and
There's a lot of preparation that goes in, in the pregnancy stage. And there's not a lot that we can actually receive from in labor. Like you're not going to pick up a book and read it. You don't, your brain doesn't work that way in labor, but to hear life giving tracks like that.
Tara, where can women find your hypnobirthing tracks or connect with you?
TARA: So the app is available on the app store and Google play. It's called Christian Hypnobirthing, and you can also go to christianhypnobirthing. com our book, courses childbirth education, and also, like, our actual everything is all christianhypnobirthing.
com. Or you can follow us on Instagram at christianhypnobirthing and Facebook as well. Come join our private community as well. Like I love the private community because it's on Facebook and just moms like ask each other questions and pray for each other and. It's just a more sort of safe, intimate space as opposed to like Instagram.
It's where people can, yeah, request prayer and ask questions that are more kind of personal and it's really beautiful.
KAREN: So you guys can find that and make sure you follow her at Instagram and get your name on her mailing list.
So you can find out when that book comes out. I know I'll be one of the first ones to order it. I'm so excited for that. It's such a massive accomplishment. So thank you so much for sharing today on the podcast and, and just sharing your journey with us of, of trusting and following God and, being faithful to what he put on your heart to, to create and offer to the world.
So thank you for coming and sharing about that.
TARA: Thank you so much for having me, Karen. It's been such a joy and beautiful to see you and I will talk to you again soon.
KAREN: I hope so. All right. Until next time. Bye ladies.
