00:05
Hi friends, welcome to the Pain Free Birth podcast. I'm your host, Karen Welton, a certified doula childbirth educator and mother of three. In this space, we'll hear positive, supernatural, and yes, even pain free birth stories from women just like you. We'll explore the deeply spiritual side of childbirth and how God designed women's bodies brilliantly for birth. Let's get started.
00:32
Welcome back, ladies. Today I have the honor of interviewing Rachel Jones, who, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. This is a different kind of birth story than one I typically share, but it's no less profound, miraculous, supernatural of a birth. I will give a warning, a little trigger warning here for any moms who are sensitive to...
01:00
Preterm birth, NICU stays, loss, this may be something that is triggering for you. But today we're going to be hearing about Rachel's birth of her daughter Abby, who was born at 26 weeks, and some of the incredible miraculous testimony of what God did through this experience. And I feel like it's so important to share not just the pain-free birth stories, but
01:26
the birth stories that go how we planned them to go, but also the ones that don't go according to plan and how that what happens and how prayer can change things. And we can still walk through that and God can still empower us in incredible ways. And Rachel's testimony is just such a beautiful example of that. I featured her and asked my community on pain-free birth
01:54
on Instagram to pray for her. So if you were following me back in 2021, which is when you gave birth, Rachel, you, you probably remember this and I posted about it not too long ago. Again, just as like a little update recap, everybody prayed from all around the world. It was so moving. There were people praying from places I'd never even heard of before. I remember sitting in the hospital telling my husband Dylan,
02:21
look at all these people that they don't even know us, but Karen shared our story. I was like, Wow, amazing. I'm just so excited to be here and be able to share with you guys because our story would not be what it is without you, Karen and all the content that you've shared that helped empower me during this birth and then the community behind us as well because I'm sure every mom listening knows it really does take a village and that doesn't just start.
02:46
once your baby is born. It's during pregnancy, you need your people. It's during birth, you need your people. And that's one of the most beautiful things that I've found about the Instagram community. Just feeling that support and that prayer from everybody was game changing. Yeah, I know. For whatever reason, God just put you on my heart. And I remember hearing your story and seeing this and saying,
03:10
I felt like I had to do something. It felt a bit more intimate, a bit more family community than not that it's not now it's a bigger family now, but it was really like a call to action that I felt like we would actually have an impact and knowing like prayer changes things like, so God just put on my heart to share and I didn't even expect it to kind of snowball into what it was. I think I heard about it before you had delivered when you were in labor at 25 weeks and
03:37
Let's just kind of back up and share the story. So at the point you were pregnant with Abby in 2021, you were following me. I think you said you were planning to take my course, but never actually got a chance to take it. It was supposed to happen in my third trimester, but then I never got to my third trimester. You never had a third trimester. Oh my goodness. Amazing, right? So tell us like the story, what happened when you realized at 25 weeks, oh my goodness.
04:06
Am I in labor? Like, what was that like for you? Well, now looking back on it, I can see, oh, I was in early labor for days that whole week. I just didn't even have that on my radar because I was 25 weeks pregnant. Going into labor was the last thing on my mind. And in my head, I was kind of thinking, this is my fourth pregnancy in four years. I've had my kids very close together. I've been...
04:31
able to breastfeed all of them. My body's probably just tired and pregnancy is hard when you're running around after two young toddlers. And my back just kept hurting. And I was like, man, okay, I guess this is just gonna be a rough pregnancy. And then I had an appointment with my midwife on Wednesday, which is a whole crazy story in itself because my husband and I were both very afraid of home birth. We were like very cool, but like some people are interested in traveling to space.
05:00
Cool for them. Not for me, not interested. That's kind of how we felt about home birth. It's like super cool, love that for people, but it's just not for us, I'm too scared. But then when I was pregnant with Abby, we both came to each other, having thought about this separately, and we're like, I think we should do a home birth, which was very out of left field. That was not something we were expecting to do at all. But we were like, okay, well, God changed both of our hearts to be desiring a home birth. That...
05:29
weirdly is for a reason. So, I'm saying in found, I think you follow them as well. Beautiful one midwifery. They're based out of San Marcos, Kelly and Tiffany. Yeah, phenomenal, phenomenal. Oh, they're just so near and dear to my heart. But I jumped in with them, had my first appointment with them and it was great. So excited. Everything was great at the appointment. And the following day I had an appointment with my regular OB as well. We did flood work, we had an ultrasound, all your usual stuff. Everything looked.
05:59
And then the next day, that Friday, we were having a family dinner and that whole dinner, I was like, these braxom hips are, oh, I did not expect it to be like this. And so then after our family left, I was kind of like, maybe I'll just like get a good night's sleep and that'll help things calm down a little bit. Hardly slept that night, woke up in the morning and Dylan was like, are you sure everything is okay right now? And I said, I don't know.
06:26
And I was kind of freaking out because we had had that previous loss. And I was afraid of that happening again, because I hadn't felt what my body was feeling at this point. And so he said, okay, let me take the kids outside. You rest. He got me some water, got my feet propped up. And then what I thought were Braxton Hicks started getting way more intense and also pretty high pain tolerance and feeling it's like, Rachel, these are not Braxton Hicks contractions. I've seen you give birth twice. Now this is.
06:57
this is contracted. When I was kind of in denial about it a little bit, I think, just because that made no sense to me. I was 25 weeks pregnant at this point. Why would that be happening? So I was like, okay, let me try all the things that make them stop. None of the things worked. And so I went to go get in the shower. So I was like, okay, this is like the last trick I have up my sleeve to be able to see if these will stop. And when I went to undress, my mucus plug had came out.
07:25
But my immediate thought was I'm miscarrying again. And I was thinking there's no way this could be happening. Like, will this baby be okay? What do I do? We're supposed to have her at home. So I called Kelly and Tiffany and I was like, this is what's going on. What do I do? And they were so calm, but they were like, go into the hospital, go get checked out. Let's just see where I think you're at and keep us posted and let us know anything we can do to help. I was like, okay. So we just took a deep breath.
07:54
Dylan packed the kids in the car, got me in the car and we started driving to the hospital. And we pull up to the emergency room and the woman that came out of the emergency room to take me in goes, oh, he can't come in here. My husband. And I was like, excuse me. And it's because of their COVID rules. This was California in early 2021. And they told me he wasn't going to be able to come in that way with me, that he would have to go get checked through this other entrance and take a temperature and all that.
08:22
And I remember looking at the lady and said, if my husband is not in that room when I get up there, I'm throwing a fit. Cause I was like, I'm not doing this by myself. Like, no, he will be in that room with me and he will be by my side through this whole thing. And she was like, okay, yeah, we'll make sure he's there. Yeah, I love you. And I was like, my first moment, I was like, nope, this is happening how I want it to happen and he will be in that room. Yes, yes.
08:52
So he was there. They got him up there real quick. He was there when I went to the room. That's amazing. Yeah, that was great. Anyone who birthed during COVID, especially in California, holy cow, like major props to you and for advocating for yourself like that. So incredible. What happened next? Like, obviously, you're probably freaking out. Were the doctors freaking out? Like, what did they do?
09:18
There was a lot of people in the room and they hooked me up right away. The first thing they went for was checking if there was a heartbeat with there was, and that was the very first thing we saw. And I was like, okay, that's what I needed to see. Then they checked my fluid levels. They were monitoring my contractions, so those were still happening about three minutes apart and my fluid levels were fine. My water hadn't broken yet. Everything looking at the ultrasound looked great.
09:45
And so they're like, okay, we're going to bring the doctor in, we're going to talk about some options here. And they put me in the bed. What's it called that really long word with a C trans and something Berg. What's that called when they put you like upside down, your feet are raised and your head is down like an inverse. Yeah, a forward leaning like inversion or my head was down towards the ground and my feet were up towards the ceiling at like a 45 degree angle. Yeah.
10:12
Yeah, your head was down and your feet were up. That's interesting. They did that to you. That's like what they used to do back in the day before hospitals. Yeah, they said gravity. That's all we're fighting against right now is gravity because she's so small at this point, that if things were to progress even faster, then gravity could play a factor in that. So upside down, I went and they which was a very odd feeling because all the blood is rushing to my head, of course, which is just not a good feeling in general.
10:42
feeling so overwhelmed about everything that was going on. But even in that moment, I still, once I saw that her heartbeat was there, I was like, okay, Dylan is here, there's a heartbeat. Something's gonna happen. And all we can do is go through each moment by moment and figure out what to do because I had no idea. I had never known anybody well enough to have a premature baby to know what happened when you went through a premature birth like this.
11:10
especially because there was no outstanding circumstance like preeclampsia or anything like that. I was just spontaneously in labor. And so then they started me on NIV with fluids and a couple other medications that I can't remember the name of that was supposed to slow down my contractions. And then they started me on magnesium. So that way, if the baby was born, that would hopefully differ a brain bleed from happening. And that was the most.
11:38
horrific thing I've ever been given. They told me before they gave it to me, the loading dose is always really, really hard to handle. Your whole body's gonna get hot, it'll probably make you feel lightheaded, and it just isn't a good feeling. They were not kidding. I felt like my body was lit on fire. It was so hot everywhere, and I started throwing up, and I got really tired all of a sudden. But I was like, well, if this is gonna help our baby not have a brain bleed, then do whatever you want to me. I don't care.
12:07
But yeah, that was quite the experience. And then the doctor comes in and it happened to be the OB that had delivered my son. And he didn't remember me, of course, so she delivers her son of babies. But I remembered her and I was like, oh cool, like a familiar face. And so she's doing the ultrasound to check on how Abby's doing. And she goes, oh my, and pulled out her cell phone and takes the picture. And I was like, what do you mean, oh my? Abby's had several shots.
12:37
out of my cervix. Just poking it on out. No. Yeah. I was like, Did you know you were dilated? Like, No, I assumed that I was because at this point, I've been having contractions for a couple hours. But assumed that I was But the water hadn't broken yet. And she stuck her foot out your cervix and she and the doctor could
13:06
see this on the ultrasound. Yeah, she's like, I've never seen this before. And I was like, that's great. Can you like put it back in? Put it back in? Yeah. Yeah, like, how is this gravity thing not working out? It could have been more for body without the gravity. Right? Like, what's the issue? Just flip and slide out? Yeah, it's because, right, preemies are a whole different situation. Like, they're, you don't need to be 10 centimeters dilated to have a preemie. They're much smaller. So, so what do they do?
13:37
So then their concern was, okay, she's briefed. So if we have to do, we might have to do an emergency fee section, but we want to keep her in. They wanted to keep me in the hospital until I was at my due date, which was a very scary thought to me because- Until your due date. That's like 15 weeks. That was four months away. Yeah, four months. I said, no, I said, that's not gonna happen. Because at this point, with all those medications, my contractions were still 10 minutes apart.
14:06
And at that point, those medications should have like stopped my contractions completely. Yeah. So, so were they giving you options? Were they telling you like, here's what we're going to do? Like, but they, I'm assuming they were planning to like keep you, they wanted to keep you in the hospital and try to stop the labor. But it's funny to me that they were so concerned about her being breached because the research on breach babies.
14:34
are preemies are actually very successful. Like that as preemies in a breach presentation, the risks of head entrapment and the things that they're concerned about are so low because they're so small they just kind of tend to slip out. That's kind of what I thought too. I was like after the fact I was thinking about it more and I was like who really cares what direction she would have came out? She's so small. I think it's funny too how hospitals are so intensely against breach
15:04
Breach births, but if you're handling birth in a physiological way, a breach position isn't the end of the world. Right. It's not. And it's just something they're not used to seeing. I mean, and so you've got a situation where the leg is hanging out, not only are you preemie, but your breach, which scares them equally. They shouldn't have been scared about the breach. But obviously, the preemie is a major concern. And we have to like, keep that. And the goal is to keep the baby in.
15:32
as long as possible because 25 weeks is super early. And I'm sure the risks or rates of survival are not that great at that stage. And were they telling you all that? Like, how were you handling all of this? Not at that point. So after that whole incident with her foot happened, they were coming in and checking me like every 10 minutes or so. And so then they came back in and she had turned herself around after that. Just wanted to take a little peek and then.
16:00
Take a little flip wrap with knowing her personality now. I'm like, that makes sense. That, yeah, that's absolutely. I'm just gonna say hi with my foot and then flip over. Oh yeah, we always joke that she's like aggressively shy. Cause she's very shy with people she doesn't know. But like, you'll say hi to her and she'll go, no. And then just straight away. That's what she did to that doctor. She stuck her foot out, said no, and then turned around.
16:27
No, I don't like you. I'm going the other way. Yeah, this whole premature situation makes so much sense with her personality. She would be the one. So crazy. So once she turned around, they're like, all right, let's get her to the other hospital right now. And so then they loaded me up into a gurney and I was kind of freaking out because Billan was going to have to drive separately, of course. And this is all still the first day. Yeah. And then we get into the ambulance and as we start driving,
16:57
The older one is in the back with me and he said, how far along? And I said, 25 weeks. And he said, my son was born at 26 weeks. And I just jaw dropped. But that's not a coincidence. That's God. If they have that. God sent that man. So he was your attendant, one of the medics in the ambulance. Yeah, he was the one that was back in the back part with me when they were transporting me.
17:25
And he had a son born at 26 weeks. Wow. And his son was born, we were the same age. So his son at that point had been born 27 years ago, which Nikki is 27 years ago. Look nothing like they look now. That's a far scarier circumstance than what I was going through. Wow. And so what, what did that do for you? It was so relieving because Dylan, my husband is so helpful.
17:52
during labor and delivery that I care more about where he's comfortable than myself because he makes me feel so comfortable. And so having been pulled away from him into the ambulance really freaked me out. Especially, I didn't know if I was going to all of a sudden go back into those quick contractions again being unhooked from all the continuous medications they had me on to slow those contractions down. Yeah and who knows how your body would have responded in that situation. It was an hour drive.
18:22
So I was just feeling very uneasy. And being able to have that conversation really took my mind off of one, the contractions, to all the what ifs and just knowing that, okay, this happens. And look at, God gave us this EMT, there's no way this guy just happened to be the one that came and got me. Yeah, and at the same age, at the same gestation, he happened to be with you like,
18:51
That is a godsend. Like, I was like, it's okay, I got this. And so it was really nice. He was just helping me feel more comfortable. And then we got to the hospital. They took me up Dylan was already there. They got me all settled, met with a new doctor. And they loaded me up on all the medications again, and again, how that loading dose of magnesium. At this point, right when we got to the hospital, my water broke. So then I'm kind of starting to freak out a little bit more.
19:19
And I'm thinking they're going to make me deliver this baby because they're going to panic that my water broke. And we know how a lot of hospitals feel with that. But I was hoping to at least make it two more days because they had those shots that help the lungs develop more. But they have to be given within a 48 hour period. So I had one of them at the first hospital, but we needed to wait until the next day to get the second one. And that, for some reason, I felt.
19:49
a lot more confident about how she would handle life outside the womb. If I had both of those shots. Yeah. I was amazing. Some of the technology and the medications and things we can do now to help these babies that we didn't have, you know, 20, 30 years ago. And I'm, this is one of those situations that I'm so grateful that we have the medical care available to us today. Absolutely. That even many other countries don't have, you know, they just don't have the survival rates we have for.
20:17
preterm birth. And in these true emergencies, it's like, thank God, we can help these babies lungs grow before they're even born and give them a fighting chance. So yeah, it's amazing. That was the moment when they came in and started talking to us about those survivability outcomes. And that was one of the probably worst moments for me anyways, my water is just broken. And I'm trying to sit up and I can't so Dylan's holding me up.
20:47
He's literally holding my head up. I tried to lift my arm to get a drink of water and I couldn't, I'm throwing up. Every time I throw up more amniotic fluid comes out and they bring in the NICU team, the NICU nurse, the OB that was on. There's so many people in there and I was so out of it and everything that was going on. I was like, why are we doing this right now? I'm throwing up and you're talking to me about the survivability outcomes of my baby.
21:14
They were talking about that she will most likely be gray. She's not gonna be making any noise. We're gonna have to intubate her right away. We might have to perform CPR and all of that is gonna have to happen in the room right next to you. So you need to prepare for that. I'm growing up, I can't even open my eyes. My head's been holding my head and I'm just like. That's like the worst timing ever. But that's the moment when I think all the doctors thought this woman is insane.
21:43
because I was completely calm. Because once I got to the hospital and I laid in that bed, I knew that God told me, this is gonna be really hard, but she's gonna be okay. So even though I had all those doctors in there, all of that was going on, I just knew I don't know what exactly that means. I don't know if she's gonna be born in five minutes or in five days, but God said, it's gonna be hard, but she's gonna be okay. So I'm not worried about this anymore. My only job.
22:12
is to birth this baby. Wow. That's all I can do. And that's where so much of your content really came into play for me was being able to actually say, this is what's gonna happen. This is not what's gonna happen because everybody had an opinion about what medication I should be on, how long I should be on it. Do this, don't do this. This is how we're gonna keep you in here. And they didn't let me eat. Oh.
22:42
even more time. I am already laboring. I am so hungry, but they're worried they'd have to do an emergency seat section. I'm worried that I'm not going to make it through labor because I don't have anything in my system at this point. It's been so long. And what are they expecting? Like, are they going to starve you for five days? Like, right? It makes no like
23:07
Like starving a woman in labor is probably going to send her into preterm labor or send her body into shock or cause a cesarean more than the risks of aspirating during that cesarean. Like, sorry. I can't even count how many of your posts that I have saved that are like labor snacks, drinks to have during labor, what to have before, what to have afterwards to replenish your body, like what, why? That was frustrating and
23:36
one of the nurses, he was so sweet. And again, this is where I think they all thought I was insane. I was so calm through all of this because I knew what the Lord had told me. And at our Bible study that previously, we had been studying Hannah in first Samuel and it just stuck out to me so vividly, her palm in confident faith in an absolutely chaotic situation where she's been praying for this child and we read that God closed her womb,
24:06
from the outside can seem kind of confusing. Like, why would God do that to her when he also placed the desire in her heart to be a mother? But then we see that his timing of that child was so vital to what his story was gonna be so that he could be raised up by that priest. And that was the story in how God intended to use this boy. And when we read that story, that calm but confident faith that Hannah had stood out to me so much. And I know that was the Lord giving us that lesson.
24:35
so that I could hold on to that in my own circumstance of this incredibly chaotic situation where logic would say panic, but the Lord told me, this is gonna be hard, but it's gonna be okay. So remembering, okay, we have seen the fruit of what it looks like to have that common confidence faith. I wanna embody that right now. So I'm going to do that spiritually while I physically also am able to say,
25:04
This is what my body needs. This is what my baby needs. This is what we're gonna do. Wow. Now the nurses, some of them are believers and some of them are not. And at this point I'm like, I can talk to you about Jesus all day long because you can't leave me alone and you can't get away from me. So this is a grand opportunity for me. What are you gonna do? Be mean to a lady having a premature baby? No. So- What did you say? I was just telling them everything. I was like-
25:33
I was telling them about the Bible study that we had and why I was able to feel confident and that God told me that it's going to be hard, but she's going to be okay. And meanwhile, they're thinking all the medical statistics of like, okay, she's probably just in denial. This is probably just something she's scared, but she's trying to lean on this to feel better. Right. I just could be confident because like we say when Hannah names Samuel, Samuel, because God...
26:03
told her that he was going to give her a son. And so she knew he's faithful to do what he says. So I was being as Hannah as I possibly could. Oh my gosh, that is so beautiful. And the fact that you're even witnessing to your nurses about it and that your faith is like bubbling over like.
26:23
you're so kind of told me and they're probably thinking, oh, well, she's, she doesn't know how serious this is. Yeah. Which is, which is the way that their training in medical school is so pragmatic. It's like black and white numbers, stats, you know, percentage and risk factor, and there's no room for faith in that. So I love that you were able to find that, that piece and stand on that faith. And not only that you could maintain that piece, but that you were sharing it with the nurses around you.
26:53
It's beautiful. And so what happened, like how long were you pregnant with her? Five days go by and I am having contractions 10 minutes apart for five days. And I had barely slept the days before that. And it was a new OB that came onto the rotation that day. And she said, I know this seems kind of strange, but I suggest you get an epidural so that you can sleep because clearly this baby is coming. What do you want to do? And I was like,
27:23
Where'd you come from? What do I wanna do? The first person to ask me that in five days. I was not expecting that at all. And she says to me, she goes, you know your body than the rest of us. You don't know what your body's gonna do. I'm sure you can tell what your body is feeling and what your body wants to do right now at this birth. This isn't your first rodeo. So you tell me. And I was like. Wow.
27:46
uh, give this lady a raise like this. Yeah. And get me a hamburger. That's what my body wants. I need it out right now. So I said, I'm going to have this baby. And I know if you take me off these medications, I will have this baby today. And quite frankly, I want to because I am so tired. I can't do this anymore physically or emotionally. She's not going to stay in there for four months. We've had the two shots. I think this is good. If it's going to get
28:15
I feel confident in her being born, Dylan's on board with it. I want to do it. And she said, okay, how do you feel about taking a nap first? And I said, excellent. I'd love it. That's a great idea. That is a smart doctor. Praise the Lord, because, oh my gosh, that makes a huge difference to be able to go into labor, well rested versus completely depleted and having not slept or eaten in five days, like that's a setup for an emergency cesarean and a crash.
28:45
for mom and baby and they don't, but they don't think about that. They don't think about the logical like consequences of these policies. So, wow, that makes me so happy that she's so grateful that she was there. So I got the epidural so that I could take a nap and it was like a four hour nap and it was glorious. That is glorious. And that and I always tell women like that is an excellent use of pain medication. If you are so depleted and exhausted from labor that you
29:14
your body doesn't have the strength to push and you're stalling and it's not, labor's not going anywhere or like in your case where you're like, I'm about to go into labor, I know we're gonna deliver, I need my strength. Epidural is fantastic, cause sometimes you need sleep more than you need to have an unmedicated birth or that epidural will save you from having a cesarean because you got your strength back cause you could actually sleep and rest. So, so smart. And I was hesitant about it at first because
29:43
I had gotten epidural with my first born and that was the epidural experience was fine, but I didn't know anything about birth at that time. I was 22 years old. I was the first one of my friends to have a baby. I hadn't even really looked into anything about birth. I thought, well, the doctor will tell me what to do because they're supposed to look out for me. Like that's their job. Why would anything else happen? That's how so many women enter their first birth and labor and then you get the wake up call like, oh.
30:12
My doctor is not even in the room for 80% of the time. So with my first born, I dilated the pen, so she said, start pushing. So I did, but I didn't feel the need to push. I ended up pushing for three hours and having a fourth degree tear because my body wasn't ready. Which for those who don't know, a fourth degree tear is the worst kind of tear. And that's where it goes from your perineum all the way to your anus through all those layers of muscle. And it's extremely painful and difficult to recover from. And you only really get those from forced.
30:42
Yeah, it was horrible. So then I felt like, fast forward to my second birth, that would happen very quickly. And so I hadn't ever felt what water breaking felt like until my birth with Thomas. And I'm sitting there and I look up and I look at my mom and I go, mom, he just punched me in my butthole. How did he do that? And then all three of y'all come down and I go, oh, it was my water breaking. He didn't punch me in my butthole. It's fine.
31:12
And so then I saw the nurse, I was like, my water broke and I feel like I need a plus. And she was like, no, no, no, it'll be like an hour or so probably. And I said, okay, well, I'm going to start pushing. You can come back in an hour if you want. Because I felt like I was ready to push and I was like, I'm not making that mistake again. So I feel like I was slowly working my way up to being able to be a confident birther. So then by the time we're here with Abby, when I finally have this OB that's like, what is this going to look like? How do you want it to look?
31:41
And I've been looking at your content, I've been reading your posts, I've been mentally preparing for this empowered birth where I can say what's gonna happen, which I also knew I needed if I was gonna do a home birth, which now looking back on it, I think that's why God changed the mind and the feelings parts on a home birth. It's because I needed to be able to have that mindset of we can do this on our own. I was made to do this. I can have these tools of how to approach this birth physiologically in a healthy, confident, empowered way.
32:11
And I needed that mindset to be able to do this with Abby, even though it wasn't gonna be a home birth setting. But because we shifted our hearts to be ready to have that kind of birth, I think that's why in those moments I could say, okay, yeah, I'm gonna take a nap on this epidural. Woke up, took out the epidural, took off as many as the IVs as she could. Said, so how do you wanna lay? Are you comfortable leaning? Do you wanna stand? Do you feel strong enough to stand? What do you wanna do? In my head,
32:41
I had been wanting to be either like on my knees or standing up with something a little bit more natural of a birthing position, but I just didn't have the strength at that point. Yeah. So she said, how about we roll you over on your side and I will hold your leg up for you. You don't even have to use your muscles. So this amazing woman, I'm laying on my side and she's just holding my leg up for me. So I didn't even have to do it. And I'm having these contractions now that all the medications are gone. Now they're about a minute apart. And
33:10
I would have a contraction and then I just lay there and like half fall asleep, half pass out. It felt like it was just taking everything out of me. And then I felt that moment where I was like, okay, I know this is the one where she's coming. And so I pushed out, she comes and she is, as they had told me, they were thinking she was going to be gray, not moving, not crying, need to be intubated and possibly CPR right away. He has bright pink.
33:40
screaming her head off, like as loud as my full term children. And they were like, jaw dropped. It was amazing. And so they pull her out and because my placenta was like, I'm not breathing yet, like I'm in space, we're in here. Cause she didn't come out super far because so much of my endocal cord was still far up in my belly. They, you can hold it for a second. She's breathing.
34:07
And so I reached down and she grabbed my arm so tight. I will never forget that feeling about how tight Abby grabbed my arm. And it's so funny because it's the way that she grabbed me now, if she's like hurt or scared, you know, that like just fling the mom that they do. Yeah. That's what she did in that moment. And I was just jaw dropped that I knew God had told me that she was going to be okay. I have just all of these.
34:37
amazing people around praying for us. I knew that there was people all around praying for us since the youth and our friends, our family, but still just feeling that miracle happen and actually tangibly holding a miracle. That's an indescribable moment. And the fact that they let you even hold her at 26 weeks she was born right on the day. Yeah. 26 week old baby. I have, that is unheard of,
35:07
every other story I've ever heard, they cut that cord and they whisk that baby to the NICU like stat. Like if they don't get him on the machine that baby's gonna die, which we know isn't usually true, but they are usually in critical condition. The fact that they recognize, oh she's breathing, she's stable, we don't have to take her away from mom, and they let you hold her? Holy cow, I bet I would not be at all surprised if we get to have an end where like, yeah that actually gave your baby.
35:37
strength and the psychological piece to like know I'm safe and mom's here. Because I think my personal opinion is one of the reasons Nikky babies struggle so much outside of just the fact of being born early is the abandonment and the fact that they don't know where mom is and they're going into psychological shock because they're not connected and getting that skin to skin. And you got that, she got that from like
36:06
minute one. Did they cut her cord right away? Dylan got to cut it still. They would have let it stay attached longer, but my placenta was still like, I guess, I don't know if they could feel or what, I don't know, but they could just tell like it was not making its way out just yet. So Dylan actually cut the cord. How long did they wait or did he wait? It wasn't very long. I think it was like maybe a minute.
36:35
which really isn't even a minute is honestly better than normal in that situation. And I feel like a NICU time. Yeah. Long. Or pretty very long. I'm shocked. I never heard all the details that I'm shocked that you got to hold a 26 week old baby and that they let your husband cut the cord after at least a minute, like that's unheard of. Yeah. They were absolutely shocked and she didn't need to be intubated. She did need to be put on oxygen.
37:05
but she didn't need to be incubated. There was no CPR, there was no resuscitation. So they had her in the little warmer with the whole NICU team right there. And then Dylan was able to go with her to the NICU right away. And then they worked with me on getting my placenta and everything out. And it was so interesting because they thought that my placenta would give us some kind of clue as to why I went into labor early, because nothing else was giving us any indication of what caused it. There was nothing wrong per se with.
37:35
anything. And my placenta comes out and there were some blood clots on it, but they were sticky. So they're like, well, this is from, it did rupture partially during birth, but that makes sense because your body wasn't really ready to go into a birth. But because they could pull them off, they knew it hadn't ruptured before, which could have caused the preterm birth. And it was only on half of the placenta. So they said, really, it must have happened pretty soon. So why do you think you went into labor early? I have no idea.
38:05
I truly have no idea. I think maybe some of it could just be we live in a broken world and sometimes bad or hard things that aren't supposed to happen happen. But that doesn't take away from what God can do in those moments because clearly we can see that he was present through that whole experience and that experience of birthing her and then being in the NICU for three months afterwards absolutely changed.
38:34
me as a person. And it's even convicting to talk about it now because there were so many moments that while I was there in the hospital or while we were in the NICU that I would tell myself, I will never forget this. I will never let this be any less prevalent or heavy on my heart to be so grateful to the Lord and to just live every single moment of both my life and me as a mom.
39:02
exactly how he wants me to do it. And I have failed countless times since then. It's just, it's so convicting to share these things because it brings me back to all those moments of feeling the Lord's presence and feeling his call on my motherhood and who I am as a woman and how he changed me and used all of these circumstances.
39:27
who pull me towards that person that he created me to be and wants me to be for my family and how easily I can let outside circumstances make me dig my heels in the sand or forget any of those things. What kind of things did God do in the NICU that you want to remember? All of her nurses were absolutely shocked at how her birth went, how she was doing. She scored a three on her Apgar test, which is a terrible score for a full-term baby.
39:56
but for a NICU baby, usually they don't even get a one. But she got a three, which is like unheard of. And overall, the way that she responded to all of their treatments, the way that she responded to nursing, again, they all thought I was crazy because I told Ben, I'm not bringing her home on a fortifier. I understand that she needs vitamins in the beginning. I know she needs some of those things now, but there came a point where she was spitting up so much and it was orange.
40:24
And I told the nutritionist, she doesn't need that stuff anymore. I think she did for a while, but now her body is clearly rejecting it. And they were like, well, that's just because she has such, that's so common with preemies and her feeding cube was all the way down into her intestines because she did have really bad reflux, but anytime they moved and that tube kind of irritates a little bit, which can make it worse. And so I was like, no, I don't think she needs these anymore. Let's just try it for three days. If you lose his weight, I was wrong.
40:53
put her back on him. He was fine. He gained weight. And they were like, you're so hesitant to lift it. Yeah, or to break protocol. Oh my gosh. I'm so impressed. Like, it's so hard to negotiate those kinds of things in the NICU because they have their way of doing things. It's intimidating. Yeah, you're not a maternal fetal specialist and NICU doctor. Like,
41:22
These guys are have some big degrees behind their names, but a mother's intuition trumps all of that. And you knew your baby and you knew she doesn't need this junk anymore. She's throwing it up. I've heard from other NICU parents, like they do the throw, the babies are throwing up first because they're also overfeeding them. Like they're giving them many more ounces than their tiny little tummies can take. Then they're throwing up and then they're like, well, we'll give them like oatmeal. We'll add like oats.
41:49
the form which is they have no way to digest that which causes like allergic react like so many other problems and these parents have to fight like tooth and nail just to get like to not have all of these like crazy interventions because the focus is so much on like how many ounces and pounds are they gaining and it's all on the external weight and not on the actual internal
42:18
long-term health of that baby. Right. So I'm so shocked that you advocated for it, that you felt confident to do that. Yes, I'm so grateful. You told them what was going to happen. You're like, this is what we're going to do. And if you know what, in three days, if she loses half an ounce or whatever, like I was wrong. Okay.
42:36
Yeah, I can be wrong. I want to be reasonable. And they actually listened. Yeah, and there's so many studies about the breast milk from a mom who delivers a premature baby. It's higher in fat, it's higher in calories. Yes, so superior. It's superior to everything they could give that baby. All the high calorie formula feeds in the hospital, which they push a lot, which is also part of that, is because the formula companies design.
43:04
a lot of the protocol in the NICU rooms. And I don't know if you knew this, but the formula companies even designed the layout of the NICU floor and they make sure the mothers are staying super far away from where their babies are staying in the NICU. So that in order to actually like get up and feed your baby, you have to like traverse all of these hallways and stairs. They don't make it conducive to breastfeeding whatsoever. And the formula companies- They told me I probably wouldn't be able to.
43:32
Right. They're right. It is highly unlikely that you are going to be able to breastfeed. And I said, no, that's what I'm going to be doing. And sure, it will be difficult for her to learn. Like she was born before she learned how to suck. She couldn't do that yet. I was not expecting her to breastfeed on day three. We didn't even get to hold her until a week and a half of her being born. And she was so little. And there were so many. Why is she one pound, nine ounces? Yeah. I didn't ask how much she weighed. One pound, nine ounces. Wow. And she was 13 inches long.
44:01
which they thought she was rather tall. She was a tall baby. That seems tall for the gestation. Yeah, that's been very tall. So you didn't get to hold her for a week and a half, but you were able to like see her and be with her. Like so many things are different, which is I think so important to share your story because I think women in this situation who have preemies or babies with, you know, rare medical conditions probably feel so alone and...
44:28
And I'm sure it's a very tight-knit community among, among NICU moms. It is, but if you haven't actually experienced it, there's just a certain aspect of it that you don't get, that seeing your baby that little, and we took pictures of her like next to this, like stuffed animal as she grew. And so you can see certain things like, her diapers were about the size of an airplane case when she was first born. And so certain visualizations like that help people understand, but there's something so different about actually being there.
44:57
My friends were asking so many good questions and asking, do you want to talk about it? Do you not want to talk about it? What can we do to support you? Our community is amazing. But you just get so close with the nurses that that was one of the things that was most important for us and that I think was such a gift from the Lord. So many of her nurses were believers. So this is probably a profession that I don't understand how some of them weren't. Like you are witnessing miracles day in and day out. And granted, yes, you do see a lot of tragedy.
45:25
but to be able to see the things that they do and see what usually should be happening inside our bodies is insane. Like seeing the development that typically is happening on the inside of our womb, outside, was mind blowing. And some of these nurses have been there for years. One of the primary nurses that Abby had had been doing this for 35 years. And she said when she first started, most babies that were born before 34 weeks didn't survive. Now.
45:54
baby born at 34 weeks don't even always go to the NICU just because of how much things have progressed. Just to give like a little context for this, the early like the youngest baby to have ever survived I believe and I could be wrong but was somewhere around 21 weeks. Yeah. Like currently like modern day like that's the youngest they've been able to save a baby is about 21 weeks where they're even viable and that's very rare that they'll survive at that age so you weren't very far from that.
46:23
period and the fact that she came out kicking and screaming and didn't need to be intubated. And, and I remember there was a testimony that you shared, because I was posting updates and having people pray. And we were like, tell us what's going on. We were rallying the troops. Like we were praying before she was delivered. We were praying you'd stay pregnant and that she'd be okay. And so, you know, we didn't know what was going to happen, but I just knew like if we were praying all over the world and we had hundreds and hundreds of people praying. How many?
46:52
And I would show where they're all praying from and they were all praying. And then she was born and you told us she came out like she was breathing, she was crying and we were like, oh my gosh, praise God. And then at one point you said that she doesn't even need oxygen, which is like unheard of in the NICU at that age. A lot of babies will leave the hospital even with oxygen coming home. And she was rocking it. She had this little onesie.
47:21
said rock in the NICU like a boss, because she just, she was, she was doing so well. It was mind blowing. And I, I know that that is only sustained by the Lord. And we got to share with so many of those nurses about her story, about our faith. And not all of them were believers, but some of them were. So knowing that they were women there praying over her and loving her.
47:50
when I couldn't be there was both hard and refreshing at the same time, because I'm not there every day. I'm not able to do all these things for her. I'm not holding her all day long. I'm not nursing her yet. There are very few things that are mom things that I can do for her. But I'm just so grateful for the nurses that we had because they did such a good job of not crossing that line of being her mom, but
48:18
loving her so well and making sure that Abby felt safe. And that's just so special. And I think that's something that God definitely gifted us with because she was an hour away. I mean, you can't be there. And again, with COVID, the rules were changing all the time. You left the hospital, you couldn't come back until the next day. So we couldn't split our time. And because Emily and Thomas were so traumatized about me leaving so abruptly and being gone, I was going down to the hospital after they went to bed.
48:46
I would leave my house around 8.30 to 9, drive the hour to the hospital, stay there until like one in the morning and then back home. And then your mom in all day long. Yeah. Like you were saying about the skin to skin and the nurses talked about that with us. One of her nurses was a travel nurse and he'd done a thing in Atlanta and she said that the statistics there were a lot lower in the health that they saw in the babies because
49:13
They didn't have a lot of parents coming into the NICU and spending time with the babies. And they consistently saw the ones that weren't being held once they could be held. They didn't do as well as the babies that were being held and were having that parental connection. Yeah. There's huge, huge, uh, studies on, on the benefits of skin to skin. And I think for, for preemies, it's, it's just as I think it's even more important. And unfortunately they get so difficult because like I have friends that are
49:42
your point. NICU nurses are a special breed of humans. Like I have so much respect for these nurses because what they have to deal with and witness and support is just, I couldn't do it. Like there's so many tubes and cords and if you jostle them at all, like it's such an intense amount of staff. Like
50:04
training and like you need so much staff support even just to be able to hold a NICU baby that's on like all those different kinds of support and monitors in order to transfer them safely to a mother's chest. It takes a lot of work but every time they do they see these babies heart tone stabilized, blood pressure stabilized, every single physiological thing you could measure in their body
50:34
Yeah, it's worth it. I know it takes a lot of staff time and it's not convenient and there's even risks to it. Cause what if a tube falls out and they can't breathe or whatever, but like Holy cow is worth it. And I remember you posted a picture of the first time you held Abby. Yeah. I'm gonna like cry even just talking about it. Like you were crying and I was just like, Oh yeah. It's what we were praying for. I was so scared cause I was like shaking. So I was so excited, but she was so little that I was like, I don't want to hurt her cause she's so small and moving her in.
51:01
It's just crazy to see like I did not have that confidence when we were first there. But they worked with us so much and were so helpful. And I remember the first time we got to give her a bottle was so special. And the video, she looked so tiny because Dylan got to do it. Were you able to breastfeed her? Were you pumping? I mean, obviously she couldn't breastfeed in the beginning. Were you able to later? Yeah, so I was pumping and I...
51:29
had an insanely large milk supply, which was a huge blessing. And I had never pumped before because I've been lucky enough to be able to stay home with all of our other babies. And I had never used a pump before and what happened to pumping moms? Cause those are the worst. I'm not a pumping. I hate pumping. The pumping moms, the working pumping moms, you are a champ. So at what point was she, were you able to breastfeed? She was 30.
51:59
four weeks, I believe, when we were able to first try because they actually don't want you to try, I might be off on that age, but they don't want you to try before then because even if they are successful, they burn too many calories because it's so much effort for them at that point that they still want you to expose them to it. And you can even like squeeze a little bit out like onto their lips so they get used to the taste, but it burns so many calories that that was just something you kind of had to be aware of in time, how long.
52:28
they were feeding from the breast versus from the feeding tube or from a bottle. Okay. So she was actually only like eight weeks old. Yeah. But 34 weeks, if you're talking about your, her full gestation, like she doesn't need full term yet. And then she, she started. That's amazing. Yeah. So that was really, really exciting. And we just kind of would let her when someday she wouldn't someday she would, but I just, I never wanted to push it. I just,
52:58
Obviously she was capable. And I think it's something that naturally all babies desire. So we just always offered it. And then slowly as time went on, then she felt like it was two, two and a half weeks after that, you just took to it, but it was so hard at the end of her stay because there are certain requirements that have to hit before they go home. And one of them is that all their feeds have to be from a bottle, which is really frustrating because
53:24
they have like a certain time to do it in. Yeah, some of those requirements feel very archaic and it can set back. Like it can be very frustrating and stressful as parents from what I've heard that they're so close, like they're gonna get released and then something is off. They don't meet some milestone and some like policy that the hospital has that they gotta stay another two weeks. And it's like, ah. Some of them I totally understand. Like they, if they have like.
53:52
a bradycardia event, they have to not have those for like five days. They certainly don't. Yeah. I don't want that to happen at home. That's terrifying. Yeah. The feats were the part that was the most frustrating because when I was there, I was like, well, I want to breastfeed her. But if I do that, that doesn't count as a bottle feed. And then that sets us back another day and her coming home. So yeah, that's a little right. Another example of how it's not designed at all to support breastfeeding. And most I thought.
54:19
Why don't you just have me stay here for 24 hours and see if she nurses on me for 24 hours? But they didn't have that idea, so. Well, I love the fact that you advocated for because until we have more moms like you advocating for those kinds of things, it's never gonna change, but we need to be. That's a wonderful moment, towards the end of her stay, they have to do all their valuations and stuff. And I told the nutritionist, I said, I'm not bringing home a fortifier. If you bring me a fortifier and you tell me to mix it with her breast milk and give it to her.
54:48
I'm just not going to do it. So don't waste your time in giving it to me. Give it to somebody that actually is going to use it or needs it. So they did take her off at the last couple of days. We did kind of the same thing we did with the vitamins where I said, if she starts losing weight, that's fine. I'm wrong. We'll put her back on it and let you see what happens. So then they do all their final assessments and they were like, well, I can't believe it, but you were correct. She can go home on just breast milk. That's fine. And I was like, Amazing. How did we not learn to do that?
55:16
Maybe, maybe trust a mother's intuition. I mean, just the fact that she went home on breast milk alone is probably such a minority for Nikki babies. That's what they said. Yeah, like probably unheard of. You probably broke so many records, like, just how God intervened and provided and like how he would turn things around. I just remember hearing like story after story of like.
55:44
the breakthroughs that were happening with your baby and how the doctors and the nurses were shocked. And like, this just doesn't normally happen, but I think it's such a beautiful testimony of how God is walking with you, walking with moms during like one of the most difficult seasons of your life, I'm sure. And sustaining you, sustaining your husband, he's there with your kids when they're home alone and you're not able to be with them. And he was there with your baby, even through the other nurses taking care of her.
56:14
And that was one of the most incredible things I think about her being named Abigail. We didn't look into the meaning of her name until we were in the NICU and one of her nurses said, did you name her after she was born? And we said, no, we've known her name since even before we knew she was a girl. We knew that we were going to name her Abigail. And Abigail means my father's joy. And to see how much her life has been such a testimony of God's goodness and his power and his grace that I...
56:42
know that that just brings him so much joy to see one of his creations already bringing so much light in her little life. Like she's a fighter. I mean, even in her first just three months of life, he went through more than I think I've gone through in my 30 years of life at this point. And for her life and her testimony to be able to show so much of who he is, that brings.
57:10
both a joy to her earthly father, my husband, to be able to know that I am so proud of my daughter. And then also for the Lord to see what this creation has done and to be able to share with so many people about him and his power and everything that he does for us. It just feels so meant to be that her name is Abigail. Hmm, that's beautiful. And I love, you know, you post pictures now of her first and her second birthday. She is two and a half.
57:38
now, which is crazy. Would you ever know looking at her like, oh, she was born in 25 weeks? They're like, I can't believe she is thriving as much. She does not seem like a preemie. She's very small. She looked like a very young baby for a very long time, but she was crawling around. She was grabbing at things. She was making great eye contact, making sense of noises, nursing like a champ. So after that first year, she doesn't need to come back anymore, which is pretty rare that they usually do have to continue.
58:07
some kind of occupational therapy, some kind of feeding therapy, but she is just thriving and sassy and crazy and so funny. Yes. It sounds like she's a force to be reckoned with. So Abigail is thriving. She's a little spitfire and you get to share your testimony. And I love how God just used this and used it for your family, but also like
58:34
that he provided for you every step of the way. And like intervened in an incredible ways and even broke like the typical status quo of like what they, all the doctors probably declared over your baby, even from the time you were in labor preterm with her, oh, this is gonna happen. She's gonna be gray to like probably throughout your whole NICU stay and even after like, oh, well, she's gonna have delays and she's gonna struggle with this and that. And then to not have
59:03
you see that and probably in many ways, because you followed your intuition and advocated for her when you knew what was best for her. And I just want to encourage moms listening to this, if you're in this situation, if you're struggling in the NICU or with a child with a scary diagnoses or high risk pregnancy, just know, like you can speak up and you can trust your intuition.
59:29
And what would you share with anyone going through a situation like this where they either know they're gonna have a NICU baby due to some diagnosis or they're in the NICU now with their child? I'd say the biggest thing that is going to carry you through that season is relying on the Lord day in and day out. We know that scripture tells us that each day has enough worry of its own. And that is a lesson that you will have.
59:54
uncreated in your heart after a time in the NICU or any kind of scary diagnosis like that, that you really can only take it day by day. And I'm gonna rely on the Lord through all of it because it is a marathon, it's not a sprint. And to be able to get through that, you have to rely on the Lord because we simply just don't have that capacity. And that's okay, there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with having those big breakdowns. There's nothing wrong with those days of hopelessness because there are some days where you're just gonna feel like this is the worst.
01:00:24
This is the absolute pit and I don't know why I have to go through this. But to be able to in those moments and give that over to the Lord, even if that means you still don't feel great the rest of the day, just relying on him and giving all of that to him, that's what's gonna get you through it because there will be a day where you get to share your story with somebody who's gone through something similar or is going through something similar and you're gonna be able to bring them hope through it as well. Or even.
01:00:52
your own child, I think about for Abby, I hope she never goes through a time in her life where she questions how important and valuable she is or doesn't know how loved he is. But we'll be able to share this story with her. Look at how much the Lord loves you and has loved you since before you were even out of my womb. Yeah. And to be able to tell her this story too, as she grows up, like what a blessing. Well, thank you for sharing your story to our community and to everyone listening here.
01:01:21
Ladies, if you want to follow Jones Tribe is Rachel's Instagram and that's Jones underscore tribe. Make sure you give her a follow and let her know that you listened. And if something inspired you, we would both love to hear it. You are just such an amazing inspiration to so many women. And I just want to thank you for taking the time out of your day to share with us and to be a witness for Jesus and to share his goodness and his testimony.
01:01:51
It's just truly a beautiful thing. So thank you for sharing it with us. Thank you for having me. And thank you for everything you do for us community of moms. The content you put out is amazing. And I'm just so grateful. And please don't ever stop.
01:02:08
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Pain Free Birth podcast. If you were encouraged, it would mean so much if you left us a five-star review and shared this with your community. I'd love to connect with you on Instagram at PainFreeBirth. To learn more about the Pain Free Birth e-course, free resources, private coaching, and upcoming events, find out more at painfreebirth.com. See you next week.
