00:05
Hi friends, welcome to the Pain Free Birth podcast. I'm your host, Karen Welton, a certified doula childbirth educator and mother of three. In this space, we'll hear positive, supernatural, and yes, even pain free birth stories from women just like you. We'll explore the deeply spiritual side of childbirth and how God designed women's bodies brilliantly for birth. Let's get started.
00:35
interviewing Dr. Sarah from Birth Uprising on Instagram. So you may follow her. She is a gem. I love her. We always talk in the DMs and we share each other's posts. We're very aligned in the kind of content we share and in our heart to empower women. And so I'm really just so overjoyed that she's here to share with you guys, just some of her experience as a mom who's experienced loss, IUI.
01:03
PTSD, postpartum depression. She's had a cesarean in a hospital and then went on to free birth, her second baby and so she has so much wisdom to share with you guys. Also as a chiropractor and someone who supports women throughout these years. So welcome to the Pain Free Birth podcast, Dr. Sarah. Wow, thanks so much for having me. That's great. So I'd love to hear from you and your story just about what you have learned. I mean, that is quite a shift to go from a cesarean.
01:32
to a free birth. Can you like, you know, explain that a little bit? What made you make that decision? What was what was that experience like for you? Because that's a that's a big 180. It really is. And I'll tell you it. I'm sure that it's not for everyone. Everybody listening isn't going to take their previous birth experience and decide that they're just going to DIY it like I did. But for me, it was the best possible decision and completely changed my life. So
02:03
Like you said, I'm a chiropractor. So I went to school for a natural healing type of profession. And we believe that, yes, there can be things that you can change and things that are kind of getting in the way of your healing, but your body is wise and it can heal itself and it can give birth all by itself. I heard you talking the other day about women in comas giving birth and they are literally doing nothing. And if you haven't heard about that, it's true.
02:30
Your body will have a baby even if you are doing nothing about it because you can't come right? and so I had this really innate trust in my body and I Planned a home birth with my first pregnancy, but my first pregnancy ended on a loss. And so I was really Thrown by that because I had this trust in my body and at the time I had never expected that to happen to me. I was
02:58
super healthy. I was a cross fitter. I have a master's degree in nutrition. I took really good care of myself. And I mean, honestly, it probably had absolutely nothing to do with any of that, but it's still, it made me question myself and my capabilities. And then I wanted to get pregnant again, pretty quickly. I was 33 at the time of that, I think. And so I knew I wanted multiple kids and I was like, I don't want to wait around because it's, it's going to take a bit between each one.
03:27
went to the gynecologist I had been seeing who then they became my OB and I did intrauterine insemination, IUI, which is what people used to call artificial insemination. And I went through two rounds and I got pregnant with my first son. And so I just kind of stuck with those people because they had saw me through that process. And also we had just opened our practice and we didn't have any money at all. And home birth, though,
03:57
It is often not covered by any kind of insurance and you have to pay cash. That was my number one consideration, but now I say not all cost is financial because as I tell you my story and where everything went after that, I would have greatly spent the $3,000 or whatever it was at the time to avoid all the other problems. That's a really good point that not all costs are financial. And that's something that is so true. And something that I think a lot of
04:26
parents, moms and dads don't often consider the non-financial costs of birthing in a system that is so heavily regulated and controlled. Oh yeah, I totally agree. Well I would have spent the money in hindsight, but at the same time, I'm not sorry that I ended up with the experience I did because I wouldn't be here and I wouldn't know.
04:49
I would have no idea because nobody talks about it except me and you and all the people on Instagram who are like people to talk about. But I mean out in the real regular world, no one told me any of these, the things that I really needed to know. And so I'm glad that I saw it from the inside so that I could then make a better plan for myself and see what my experience could be in a positive way instead, and then share that with people and tell them they don't have to have.
05:19
these terrible experiences, even if they do go to the hospital. So I took a hospital birth class. It was essentially useless, but also was covered by my insurance. And that was a concern at the time. And they really don't teach you like, I know your class, your, your courses teach people what they actually need to know. If you go to a hospital class, they don't teach you.
05:43
what you need to know to avoid getting abused in the hospital because it's a hospital birth class. So I took that. That was useless. And then I did have a doula for that, for my first birth, but she had been with me for a really long time and she ended up leaving. And that's when I agreed to have a C-section. It was just like one little thing after the other. You know, you sure you don't want an epidural? You sure you don't want some fluids?
06:07
You sure you don't want us to break your water? And eventually I'd be like, fine, fine, fine. And one thing led to another. And there was no real reason for my C-section. It was just like, it's been 24 hours. We've got to get you out of here. And so I eventually agreed to it because I, my husband was like a deer in headlights and, and my doula was gone and I was like, Oh, I mean, how do I know what's really going on? I didn't know enough. And so I agreed to it. I felt disconnected from my baby right away. He was a really.
06:37
challenging baby, my husband and I were talking last night about, you know, having how, when you have more kids, is it more work? Is it more challenging? And I said, I think it's easier with three kids than it was with just him because when he was a baby, he was really hard. Yeah, I agree that first kid is the hardest because you're a deer in the headlights, you don't know what to do. Yeah, well, exactly. And sometimes I think you haven't had the experience and you don't have like a game plan really. And
07:07
He also, he cried a lot more. They were just, he was a challenging baby and I was so exhausted. I've never been so exhausted in my life. And so I would have like flashbacks to that, to my surgery and the choices that I made. And I was sort of upset with my husband because he knew I didn't want that, but he let me choose that. But he's also the kind of person who's like, if I'm making a choice, he's not gonna, he knows he can't stop me.
07:34
Hence my free birth, which we'll get to next. But he didn't stop me, but I also realized there's nothing that bringing up that is going to do. I wish that he had said, you know, you don't want this. I wish that someone had supported me and made me feel like I was capable of it and it was okay and things were going fine. It wasn't like I had a fever or the baby had D cells or my blood pressure was too high or like anything. It was just like, yeah.
08:04
Like it's taken a while and I was fully dilated. It was so stupid. Anyway, so I ended up with PTSD. I would like have flashbacks. Anytime I'd see someone have a birth that I wanted, I would just instantly feel grief for what I didn't get and feel bad about myself for not being able to do that. And so I knew when I had my second, actually, I knew when I held my baby for the first time after, after surgery, I looked at them and I thought,
08:33
I need a do-over. Like how sad, you know? Like I should be like, wow, I made this person. And instead I'm thinking about how terrible that was and how I felt like I failed. And so when I got pregnant- And I think that is so something that so many women can probably relate to. That experience of feeling like, oh, that's not what I, that was not the experience I wanted. And I feel like a failure and what went wrong and all those questions. And then you probably start.
09:00
over analyzing it and like, where did it go off course? And what could I have done differently? Or the blaming? Like, and really, what you're doing is going through the grieving process of grieving the birth you didn't get and what happened. And that is that is like such a journey. So what happened in your in your postpartum? How did that affect you? Oh, it was terrible. It was it. So it was a combination of a few things. It was like the perfect storm of things happened to me around that time.
09:29
I had this birth that went away. I didn't want because I had a C-section and I was in the hospital for extra days. My husband, you know, we're a small business and we don't have anyone to cover for him. And he was now covering for both of us. So he couldn't take any time off. So I was alone from like the first day I was home on. We have zero family support. So we had and we didn't have a postpartum doula. I didn't even know at the time that that was a thing. Probably wouldn't have spent the money because I couldn't have afforded that time anyway.
09:59
And so I was so lonely, super depressed. Then we also moved into a house. It was like our landlord was selling our house at that time. We had to be out by a certain date. We were having trouble getting a loan for our house because of all of our student loans. So we were having trouble finding a place to live. And I was like, great, I have a couple of month old baby and nowhere to go. And then we moved into this house that had been abandoned for a year. And it was like...
10:24
overrun by centipedes and woodpeckers. It was terrible. Oh my goodness. It's not, right, it kind of was. It's not like that now. We have since like redone pretty much everything and we love this house now, but yeah, it was like a really just depressing time overall. And I think- I don't know why, but I feel like moving, like everyone moves.
10:47
in the middle of a major life transition, like having a baby. And like every single person I talked to was like, Oh yeah. And then we moved like right when I was due. I don't know why it just happened to work out that way. Or like right after I had my baby, I'm like, what people did this to them. Right. One thing at a time people. Yeah. It was, it was just a lot. So for a lot of reasons, but the birth primarily, I would say it was just. It was really hard. And so when I.
11:16
I knew that I wanted to have another one. And when I got pregnant with my second, I was like, I didn't immediately think free birth. I didn't actually even know that that was a thing. I hired a home birth midwife. She was a CNM who, a certified nurse midwife, who used to work in a hospital setting, but now had her own practice at home. And she was actually, I'd known her since I was a kid. She's the mother of the friend who was my doula who left me.
11:44
Like Sarah, did you not think about that? That was probably a bad idea. Like move to a new family of people. And so I hired this woman and she's probably great when it comes down to it at your birth, but she, I don't know if she had just started her practice or business on her own, but she was not, she was not organized. She was, she forgot about me. I had, I was supposed to get a 20 week ultrasound and
12:12
And I was like, I'm going to go to the
12:41
You're where now? Like, did you forget that? What? Like, you're supposed to give me a backup. Like, what if I need help? I have a question, whatever. You're in, I don't know, Machu Picchu? Like, where are you? And so, I was like, that's it. You forgot about me. You went on international vacation. You forgot about me. What's gonna happen at my birth? I was like, you're fired. And so, I fired her and then I was like, oh my God, what do I do now? I felt like I couldn't find anybody else. There aren't that many people near me.
13:12
And it was like a light bulb went off like in a cartoon and I was like, can I just do this myself? And I was like, do women do this themselves? And then I started looking it up online and realized that, yeah, some people do. It's not a common choice, but it is a choice. And at the time the free birth society had a Facebook page and I found it. And there were a lot of women in there who were just talking about all kinds of free birth type stuff, answering questions, asking questions. And then I started listening to their podcast.
13:40
And realizing how many women had had an experience like mine and were like, I'm so traumatized by the system. You could not pay me to come back. Unless I was dying. If I was, if it really needed it, I would go there. But if any other reason I am not, I'm not coming. And now I don't even trust a home birth midwife to even make it to my house because you just completely forgot I existed. So yeah, I think I'm just going to DIY it. And so it was a pretty extreme transition from
14:09
abdominal surgery to just, you know, being by myself, just me and my husband. And some midwives won't even take VBAC patients in their home, in their home birth practice. I know mine didn't. And everyone has different standards of what they consider high risk, but yeah, there's, there's a lot, there's a lot there to digest. That's a big process. That's a big turning point. How did your husband feel about it? He had that deer in the headlights look again, but
14:37
But I think he understood he's not that kind of person that's going to try to talk me out of something. And I think that's really important to have in your relationship. If one person believes that something is really, really important and the other person is uncomfortable with it, it's probably because they just don't understand it yet. And so they need more information. They need more examples. They need to listen to other stories. They need to ask questions and get on the same page as you, because I was doing it, whether
15:06
Whether he was on board or not. And honestly, he didn't do anything. I did everything. I did all the planning. I got the pool. I got all the supplies that I didn't end up even needing. I did all the research on all the things that I thought could possibly go wrong. I made the backup plan and he, I don't know, clean the house. Like that, that was it. It's like that joke they say, like it's giving birth is like.
15:31
And I think he did, he listened to some podcast episodes. I had him answer, you know, answer some of his questions and we talked about some things and he trusted that I. Yeah. And I think he did. He listened to some podcast episodes. I had him answer, you know, answer some of his questions and we talked about
15:56
And then I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I
16:26
Then my husband came home that night because I was like, I'm, I'm having contractions, but you don't need to, it's going to be a while. And then he actually, my, my older son, who was two at the time, went to a friend's, had a slumber party and he had a great time, you know, just missed it all came back and was like, Oh baby, so tiny, so cute, so pink, so easy. And I was like, yeah, for you. Cause you, you want.
16:52
You went on a little excursion to your friend's house and came back and everything was clean, but like you're and you're too, but it wasn't so easy. And it was, it was very challenging. And there were points where I think probably anybody that has some unmedicated birth thinks like, especially if you've had an epidural before, which I did. Thanks. This is where I would have agreed to it. And this is why I'm glad I'm not there because I know that I got a ways to go. And I know that I can do it, but I see why.
17:20
people say, just give it to me. I don't want to do this anymore. Yeah, it makes sense. Now, was it just you and your husband there? Yes. And that was it? Yep. And so like, what was, so that you hit this moment where you're like, oh, this is about where I get the amateur. But then, but what did you do? Like knowing, well, that's not an option. I just kept moving. I was like, I had something like a...
17:43
not a rope, but like maybe some kind of fabric, like hanging from the ceiling. And I would, I would stand and hang or I would dance around and just a lot of movement. I had a pool. So I was in and out of the pool. And I was really, that birth particularly, I was really connected with what was going on and understood. Like I got in the pool for a while and I thought to myself, I need to get out. Cause I think this is slowing me down as much as I do not want to leave the pool. I think I got to do it. And I just, I had more of an understanding
18:14
Oh, I felt like I was going to throw up at one point and I was like, Oh, I think I'm in transition now. Like I kind of understood where I was in the stages as opposed to even my third birth. I was at home too, but I had midwives because I wanted to kind of see the difference. Now I've had hospital birth where I had all these interventions and I had a surgery. I did it by myself. What's it like to have these appointments with people who actually care about what you're saying and what is it like when they come to your house and are hands off and do the cleanup? But
18:43
You know, are still there in case you need something. And so I had midwives with my third and. I don't know what I do. If I had another, to be honest, I don't know if I'd choose to just do it by myself again. I really don't know. They were, they were helpful and it was, it was nice to see for real in, in real life, what it was, how different it was to go to those appointments as opposed to my OB appointments.
19:10
Yeah. Oh yeah. I hear that a lot from women who are like, Oh my gosh, this is, I feel like a real person, not just a number in a chart to them. Yeah. It's a world of difference. Yeah. It was huge. And I think, I think, I don't know if we clarified this, but I just want for our listeners who might not know what a free birth is, cause I don't talk about it a lot on my page, not because I am against it, but I just am not an expert in it and I don't have experience in it personally. So I leave that to the people who are, know a lot more about it than I do, but a free birth is a birth where you don't have any medical professionals present. So.
19:40
No doctors, no midwives, no one with like medical training. So another word for it is an unassisted birth. And I fully understand why women do it, like in your case, who have some series of have experienced abusive maternity care or traumatic childbirth. And the fear or the thought of birthing again in a hospital is so traumatizing and they don't have access to resources or a midwife they trust in their home.
20:07
I love my midwives and I always feel more safe, like knowing, okay, in case there's that one or 2% chance that something goes wrong and I need medical intervention, like they're there and I don't have to think about it. But for those women who feel like they really took back their power in their free birth, and that was like a life-changing moment for them, I understand that. Like it is not for everyone, but there are women who like really have their awakening, their rebirth from their free birth. And so,
20:35
I think it's great. I'm excited to have you. You're probably the first person to talk about free birth on my podcast. And there's lots of much better resources than me about it. You mentioned free birth society and there's other groups. So, so I just appreciate you sharing about it and giving this perspective of what, what it was like for you. And, and then it doesn't have to be a scary, crazy thing. I'm sure you did all your research and you had to learn like, how do I resuscitate a baby and you know, you've got some, some medical or at least chiropractic you like.
21:03
you know, Dr. Background yourself. So, you know, it is certainly a serious thing and not to be taken lightly. I do want to emphasize that, like, it's not just something you roll over in bed and go, Oh, I think I'm just gonna, you know, birth without any anyone present, like, there's a lot of research and preparation that goes into it. And just as there is any birth in any setting, it is a, an event that requires so much preparation, heart work, mental preparation, physical preparation, like emotional.
21:33
work. And so it sounds like so you mentioned going and with your third birth having midwives. But how are those experiences different? Like, I'd love to know, like, what did you learn from your free birth? Or like, what fears did you have to overcome? Coming after a cesarean? What did that birth teach you?
21:54
So I would say.
21:57
What I did that helped me prep for it was I, you know, people always tell you, Oh, what if something happens? Right. Even if you're home and you have midwives, what if something happens? Yeah. But they couldn't answer if you said, what do you mean? What are the some things they would just stare at you blankly? Like, I don't know. They're going off of this generalized idea that having a birth outside of a hospital setting is inherently unsafe, which is obviously untrue.
22:27
What I did was I thought to myself, what are these some things? What are they actually that people are talking about, even though they don't know what they're talking about? They're usually hemorrhage. They're the baby not breathing, stuff like that. And so I looked into each of these things. How common are they really? How likely are they to happen to someone of my age, my health status, all of the things? If they did happen.
22:57
What would I do? And how do I prevent them from happening in the first place? And then what's my backup plan if I need help? So I did think through all of these things because I wanted to feel like. If somebody questioned me, I'd probably just tell them to go away. But if I wanted to respond, I would have an answer that because I was confident in my choice, and this is what helped me be confident in my choice. And there are some women who, who don't do that. There are some women who.
23:26
their first birth is a free birth and they don't do any of this work because they're comfortable with it just inherently and they believe that they can do it and they're totally fine. So it's really up to the individual what prepared. Birth preparation looks different for everyone. Yeah. And so for me, that's what it was like. And so I went through all of those things with myself. So I felt confident handling those situations. And you're answering those questions, not just for the people asking.
23:54
Like you don't owe them any explanation. Right. And I think that's important for women to know. Like if you're choosing to home birth or free birth or whatever, you don't owe anyone an explanation, you don't have to defend yourself. But it sounds like you had to get those answers for yourself, for your own peace of mind, because you know, intuitively, if I go into this and I, and I, and I'm afraid and there's fear or there's uncertainty or that question isn't answered, then it's going to actually show up in my body. It's going to hinder my labor.
24:23
And for me, I would have to go do all of that research to know like, okay, I have a plan. If this happens, I have a plan. If that happens, I know how to resuscitate my baby. I know how to treat a hemorrhage. I know what to do in XYZ case or scenario because you are taking a lot of responsibility on. Right. And I think the free birthers are actually some of the most educated, well, most prepared women I know, because they've done that research and gone on that journey to take on that full responsibility.
24:50
I totally agree. Most of the time that's the case because you are now your own midwife and you're going to be also taking care of the baby and making all these decisions. And so most women don't take that lightly and they want to make sure that they feel confident and prepared, like you said, because you can't, if you're worried all of a sudden and you're in your labor and you realize that you didn't learn these things that you now feel like you should have, it will hold you up.
25:19
I also live in an area where an ambulance is like three minutes away. The hospital is like 10 minutes. It may not be a great hospital, but it's there. So I don't live in the middle of nowhere either. So for me to get help, if I needed extra help, wouldn't take long at all. And so that was a consideration as well. Some women don't have that. There might be an hour and a half, two hours from a hospital. And so maybe that plays into your decision, but
25:46
For me, it was, it was definitely the best choice. And then the only thing that I kind of wanted to see if it was different. And this is why I, part of why I hired midwives was for my third, I felt like I had to be in my thinking brain a lot and not just like, especially afterwards, especially right after the baby was born. Like you're checking vitals and right checking his breathing, my bleeding, all these things that it would have been nice to have an outsider's perspective on so that I could just.
26:15
And so that was that I did appreciate about them being here. It's like they helped to clean me up when my baby, when my third baby came out. I have a video, which I didn't notice this initially because I was, you know, like a in this big haze that you're in when you first, your baby first comes out. He wasn't breathing for, I don't know, maybe like 30 seconds or so, but he's still connected to me. He was fine. He has eyes open.
26:43
And so they also helped to clean me up and like, I was like, I'm not sure what happened. I was like, I don't know. I don't know.
27:01
get me out of the pool and they cleaned up the pool because that can be a whole thing. That's a whole thing. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of stuff ends up in that pool. Right. Yeah. You don't want to have to do that in your postpartum and you should just be able to snuggle baby and bask in your golden hour. Right. I know it's a big thing, but I have no memory of it for my birth either. And I had three home births. And I think I heard about it later. Like they had a pump and they pumped it outside. And then there was this huge like,
27:29
thing out. Like, what is all that red water bloody? What is going on in there? Like, do you ever wonder what happened in that house? I'm at like home births. And I just think like, there's like magic happening right now. And my these neighbors have no idea, like the magic that's happening inside.
27:49
They might see the remains afterwards. But if we pump the pool outside the back window. Exactly. Oh my goodness. So what did all of this teach you? And what led you to where you are now to helping women and empower women in their births? What did you walk away from with all this? So after that first, my first birth, the C-section, I
28:16
You know, I was really down. I felt really lonely. And then I had that the free birth that essentially turned all my lights back on. It brought me back act the confident person I was. It made me realize it wasn't me. It was them. It was the system that I subscribed to. It was the way they do things. And I guarantee you, I never spoke to them again after my, you know, one post partum visit, I never spoke to them again because, and at that time I go into the postpartum visit and I was like, everything's fine.
28:45
I'm great. Everything's great. Everyone's happy. And inside I'm like, not feeling that way at all, but I don't want to let people know that that I'm having all these problems. I guarantee you they don't think that that birth went how I think it went. I guarantee you that they feel like they did their job. The baby's healthy. She's happy. Everything's fine. And I think that's part of the problem.
29:08
not that the feedback would necessarily do anything, but there is, it's not set up the hospital system for receiving that type of feedback because there's only one postpartum visit. So you go to that visit like I did and you want to act like you've got it all together, even though you don't. And then they never see you again. And so there's no time. You may not even realize at that time what happened to you. So there's no time for you to tell them what you did traumatize me and ruined my life. And
29:33
And so they believe that what they did was helping you and they just carry on continuing to do it. So after my free birth, I realized how different it could be and it didn't have to be like that. And so it made me wonder how many other women were out there that. We're having similar experiences and just nobody's talking about it. You know, you see, you have friends on Facebook, you see that they're pregnant. You see their last bump photo. And then the next picture is them wrapped in that really gross.
30:00
And I just wanted to know what happened in between. What happened in between? That's what I want to know. We don't film that part usually. Yeah. It's not pretty. Right. It doesn't, it's not fun to watch. Usually it's. Right. Well, and no one talks about it. You know, not even a lot of times to their friends or female family members, they really don't. Talk about.
30:25
what happened in between those things. It's just like, oh, the baby's here, and you're not supposed to let that affect you in any way. Right, you're totally right. Like we make the birth announcement on social media, and you just get usually just one picture of mom smiling after she's put on some makeup and holding the baby, and they dressed up the baby, and it's like, there's the birth announcement. And that is our exposure to birth in this modern day society. It's like...
30:52
Yeah, the baby's here. Like everything else is censored. Yeah. Unless you follow me and a few others on Instagram, they're actually show birth. Yeah. Well, it's true. You don't see it. And so I wanted to know what happened to the woman in the interim. And so I started a Facebook group that was a closed private group. And I invited women that I knew. And then they invited some women that they knew. And I think it ended up being like 600 people or something like that at the time when I stopped sharing in there. But what I used it for was.
31:23
asking questions. So I asked them, you know, tell me your stories, tell me your birth stories. And some women who had never shared their birth stories before that happened 15 plus years before, were like, this is the first time I've ever shared this. And it was horrible, the things that happened to them. And they just kept pouring in these stories. And then I used it to kind of ask questions. So I wanted to know about, you know, how was your prenatal care when someone brought up?
31:49
the glucose challenge with you? Did they tell you what was in it? Did they say that it's, you know, it's not mandatory? Did they say that there's an alternative? How were you treated during X, Y, and Z? And I got a real insight to what everyone was experiencing and it was terrible. It was like way worse than I thought. I thought my story was maybe an outlier and it was not an outlier. It was completely normal, average run of the mill. Yeah.
32:18
And so I really wanted to get, I wanted to help people and I didn't know how I would do that. And I'm still kind of working on that, but I knew that I needed to be on a platform where I could have access to more people so that they could hear what I had to say and I could learn from them. And so I started my Instagram account. It's maybe four, five years ago. I don't remember. And just started connecting with, with women, connecting with other.
32:44
people who had accounts like yours and like a lot of other people in the same space who really want women to have choices. That's what bothers me the most is I don't care what you choose for your birth, whether you decide to have a free birth, you decide to have a c-section, you decide whatever. You should have all of the options laid out to you and know what you're choosing. If you choose this, X, Y, and Z could happen and be okay with that.
33:12
In that moment, when you're making that choice, you know, all of what could happen from then on out, you know, all the alternatives, you know, that nothing is mandatory. And this is what you choose confidently. You are so much less likely to end up with trauma that way, but that's not how it's presented. It's always, this is what we're doing next week. We're scheduling you a C-section. We're going to give you the epidural now. And it's what, but what's in that? What could happen if I do get that? What could happen if I don't get that?
33:40
And all of that should be covered before you come in for your birth, like during your pre-needle care instead of the seven minutes of let's see how fat you got and make you and shame you for it or how fat you didn't get and shame you for that. Like, here's our narrow window where your numbers should fall.
33:57
And don't forget, it doesn't change after you have the baby. Now we're going to measure the baby. And if they're not within those numbers of the chart that the formula company has created, we're going to shame you for that because my body must be broken because you can't breastfeed properly and blah, blah, blah. It just, it never ends. Yeah. Right. True. And so that's, that's why I created my account because I really just wanted, I want people to know that they don't have to do your, you're in charge. If you hired.
34:26
a plumber or a mechanic or tutor for your kid. You would expect these people to do the job that you hired them for. You're paying them, right? And you're consulting with them. They know better than you, maybe at the profession that they've worked at for years, but you're consulting them on a project that you're working on. And this is no different. Your baby is kind of a project in the sense that
34:55
Like you said, you and your partner created this baby, but you did most of the work, and now you have to learn what are the decisions that I wanna make. And that's what they should be there for, is to answer your questions, to help support you, to teach you the things that you don't know, so that you can be confident when it comes time for your birth. But instead what happens is you go in and you're told what to do like you're a child.
35:20
You're told on this week we're doing this, on this week we're doing this. And literally everyone is told the same thing. If it was your aunt or your sister or the lady down the street, you all get the same thing and that would never be the case in any other medical field ever. It's, it's just easy that way for them. And it's not for your benefit. And then you have to be the one to go to do all the research of like, all right, they're going to tell me this, but what are the alternatives?
35:49
Right, because they won't give you the alternatives. They'll only tell you what happens if you don't do the intervention. Yeah. But they won't tell you the risks of the intervention. No. And there are always risks to every intervention. But they won't tell you those. They'll just fear-monger you and say, well, if you don't, your baby will die. Yeah. That's not informed consent. I'm sorry. No, it's really not. Like nurses nowadays will say, there is no more true informed consent because the medical system doesn't even have the capacity
36:18
or the time built into the OB appointments and in the process of labor delivery. Like there's not, doctors couldn't possibly give you to inform consent, even if they wanted to, like the system almost penalizes them for doing so. Right? Like they'll also, the hospital makes less money if you have less interventions and the doctors have to spend that much more time with you explaining it. And all of a sudden they're not the ones in charge. They're not the ones in power anymore. And they have to maintain this illusion
36:48
power, like we're the expert, we're the ones in power, we're going to tell you what to do, which I agree with you that is like, that is actually, I believe the more so the root of most birth trauma is feeling women getting to the end of their birth, having it not go the way they want. And it's really the trauma comes from having their power stripped from them. Not the fact that they had a cesarean, or an epidural or things happen that they didn't want because I have seen women make those choices.
37:18
get the epidural or to get the cesarean or whatever the intervention was that they needed. But they did it from a place of this is my decision. Their provider gave them informed consent and gave them the autonomy to make a decision about their own body and their own birth. And they made it with an educated decision. They made it in their power and they got to the end of the birth and they said, well, I, I'm not traumatized. I'm actually like, I feel great. It's not the way what I planned for.
37:45
But I have no trauma and I felt so supported and empowered the whole time. And even though the exact same things may have happened in their birth, that happened in yours or another woman who experienced PTSD and trauma, their version, their experience of it is radically different because they were empowered to make their own decisions. And that makes a world of difference. Yes. And that's exactly my point is you should be able to choose whatever it is you want or don't want.
38:15
But you should be given that information so that you can make that choice and, and feel confident about it, feel confident in no matter which way it goes, even if it was a way that you didn't expect or say you had an epidural and then, but you chose that willingly knowing that you're in this much pain right now, you really feel like it's the right choice for you. You're not able to relax. You take that epidural. You do know that it has the ability to decrease your baby's heart rate or increase your
38:43
you're less likely to have the trauma when you are coerced into it like I was. And you're less likely to have the trauma when you are coerced into it like I was. And you're less likely to have the trauma when you are coerced into it
39:13
where they're like, are you sure you don't want the epidural, honey? Are you sure? Are you sure? Are you sure? Are you sure? And eventually you're like, just shut up. And you agree to something that you didn't want, which then leads to another thing you didn't want that. And you feel like, yeah, you're a bystander in your own experience. And you didn't get to make those choices. They were made for you out of them being authoritarian or being coercive. And it's totally different. I think.
39:42
And I will continue to do that if I ever have more kids, but, and it's not for everybody, you know, but I feel like there, you can take something from what, what is going on in this podcast episode right now, no matter where you decide to be, because it's not about your chosen location. And yes, if you go to the hospital, you need to know a lot more than if you're at home, because there are a lot more things that are going to be thrown at you. Then you'll have to deal with that home. So it does require more prep.
40:12
But if that's where you're going, you can still have a birth that is the birth that you want or similar to the birth that you were imagining. If you are prepared and feel confident in your choices and understand how to be the authority without, you know, being a jerk, but telling people what it is that you want and explaining that clearly and having a good, you know, plan written down where you can share what it is that you have researched and decided on.
40:41
And then that needs to be respected. That's, that's a problem too. That's not even if you come in with that, sometimes they don't care. It's true. Like you have to have a good provider that's going to shield you from all of the nonsense and, and stupid policies in the hospital. If you have a good provider and you've done your homework, you've got the best odds of getting the birth you want. I personally, that's what I've seen. And I coach women how to do this every day in my course. And I give them all that info. And I say, listen, your providers, your number one risk factor.
41:11
that's gonna matter more than your age, your BMI, your blah, blah, blah, all your risk, other medical risk factors, your top risk factor is your provider. That's gonna determine whether you have a cesarean or a vaginal birth more than any other factor. And we don't like to hear that, but that's the reality because that, they influence us so much, but they're also setting us like on their conveyor belt of what they find as normal in their birth and how they.
41:38
communicate to you in labor, all of that impacts your physiology. And like what you said before was so brilliant, like the women feeling like a bystander in their own birth. And that's tragic to me. And yeah, as much as we've come so far in maternity care, we still have so far to go because we're still seeing these women. And I just saw a video like even recently today about, or yesterday of just this abusive way that this resident doctor was talking to a woman in labor who didn't want to
42:07
get deliver on her back. And he's just mocking her, you know, like it's, it's, we still have so doctors trained in this perspective of mentality that they are the, like God, they are the expert and women are just these stupid, like don't know what they're doing. And, you know, have no medical experience and don't know the real risks. And the truth is, you are the expert in your body and your baby. And I and I see like when women go into the hospital system in confidence, not in fear.
42:36
there's there is that like if you let too much of that fear get in and oh what if they do this and what if they do that and what if they do this but when you really know when you do the work and you realize oh i'm in charge like this is my body and if they want to try to do something it's like what are you doing like get out of here with that needle i don't i don't i didn't consent to that like and you remind them very quickly you know you're in charge and when they know you know you're in charge they treat you very differently yes i agree
43:06
Yeah, what, what, that's, it's such a powerful story. And I love that you have had so many different birth experiences that you can speak from experience of all of them and, and, and what, what they taught you. So it's, it's just such a profound thing to like, to come out the other side of experiencing such a traumatic birth and then, and then taking your power back.
43:31
And then doing it again with midwives, it sounds like that third one was like about allowing support and allowing yourself to receive and actually enjoy it without having to be thinking so much and, and responsible for everything. And, and what another beautiful experience to have. Yeah. It took me a long time to ever ask anyone for help. And granted, I paid these people, but then also my postpartum with my third, my second was
43:58
Okay. It was, it was pretty good because I felt so much better about how my birth had gone, but they also ended up with pelvic organ prolapse, which really brought me into like a dark place because I didn't know what could be done about it. And I just felt so alone and I felt it all the time and it was really hard for me. And so there were challenges about that part, but this, this next one, the third one, having the support of the midwives was nice. And then having them come in and check on me.
44:25
And the baby at my house. So I didn't have to go anywhere and having more appointments than just one six week appointment. And then also I had a postpartum doula and I hired a babysitter. So for my, I knew my husband was going to have to go to back to work right away. And so I hired a babysitter for the two older kids and had a postpartum doula a few days a week for a couple of weeks. And it was so much better. I was actually allowed to rest.
44:53
you know, take naps if I needed to, to only care for one baby at a time for some stretches. And it really made a world of difference. And so I did have to pay people because I didn't have any family to help me, but it didn't matter to me. I was like, I, this time I know, I'd rather spend the money and I'll figure it out later. If I need to.
45:19
so that I can heal properly and not be worried about prolapse again and not feel like I'm exhausted and transition into having three kids in a productive and sort of happier way than other transitions had been. So that's something I think a lot of women have trouble with too is asking for help, especially afterwards. And yeah, it can be really hard if you feel like you need to do it all on your own. So you don't, if you're listening.
45:45
ask people to help you. You don't have to do it all on your own. Yeah, you can ask her. Yeah, I heard someone say, and this was so brilliant. I thought it was so true. Like we always talk about the village. Like where's that village I was promised. And now I have kids and there's no village. And she said, there's no village. She said the village today does not exist the way it did a hundred years ago. You have to budget for your village. It's not free. The village is not free. She said, if you want the village.
46:15
you have to budget for it and invest in it. You have to pay for postpartum dual. You have to pay for, unless you have a wonderful family that's able to support you, and you really do have that community and family dynamics where your mom or your sisters or whoever comes over and takes care of you and cleans your dishes and cooks your meals. And I mean, I had a meal train for two weeks. That was the best thing I did.
46:37
I was like, bring me all the food. I do not want to cook. And I was like, when that thing ended, I'm like, oh my gosh, I have to cook again. Where's the meal train? Give me the meal for the membership. But investing in my postpartum is something I didn't do as a new mother because I thought, oh, it's too expensive or we don't have the money. And I see women now who do it, who really take it seriously, they have so much better postpartum experiences and get to bond undistracted with their newborns.
47:07
And it's so important. And just knowing like, that's the reality of the world we live in today. You have to pay for your village. You have to pay for the post, the PT support, you know, pelvic therapy, the chiropractor, the nutrition, the breastfeeding support, or go to a baby cafe, those are free sometimes. But most of the people you need in that postpartum and that support, even if it's just a nanny or babysitter, like you said, there's probably a teenager somewhere.
47:34
in your neighborhood who can come over in full laundry and watch your daughter for your older daughter for like two or three hours. That is almost invaluable. And just knowing that and planning ahead for that and knowing that you're worth it, moms, you're worth having support and help and you don't need to do it all is so important. And I'm so glad you're telling women that and sharing that message of how much that has changed your experience.
48:03
Yeah, well, thank you so much for sharing your birth experiences with us. Can you tell women and you guys Sarah is like a wealth of information. If you've heard any parts of her stories and you're like, oh my gosh, I've wondered about this. You know, I want to know more information. Can you tell me about this? Like, please contact her on birth uprising on Instagram, they can DM you what are the ways can they contact you or find out more about what what you're working on?
48:34
So they can find me on Instagram. I'm on there probably more than I should be. Also my website, yeah, I know. My website is birthuprising.com. And so a couple of things that I have and or am working on, I, you know, before we started this, we were talking about how I cannot focus on one thing. I just, there's so many things I wanna get out there for people that I've started all these things but haven't finished much. So.
49:03
Right now I have, I have a birth plan that's free. It's a checklist. It's meant more for people who are going to the hospital, but it gives you. In categories, all the things that you're going to need to make decisions about. And it's sort of a jumping point for you to see these things on this list and say, Oh, why wouldn't I want my baby to wear a hat? And then you look into that. You, you don't know what you don't know. So I have that for free on my Instagram account and it's on my website.
49:33
But what I've also been working on that I swear I'm going to get done this year is I am writing a workbook for all the prenatal care tests and procedures that are offered to you from your very first visit until the very end. Because I feel like, like I said earlier, you go to these appointments and everyone gets the same things. And also, no one tells you what to expect next time. Like next time we're doing this.
50:01
And so you don't necessarily get the play by play of how this whole thing's going to go out over the whole 10 months that you're pregnant. And you don't know what to look into because you don't know what you don't know. So what this workbook will do is give you all of that written out organized by trimester and also tells you what it's what it's about.
50:27
that particular test or procedure, who they're gonna wanna do it to, what it's like to go through it, and then also asks questions, because everybody's different, right? So this test might be good for you, and this test might be bad for your neighbor, but how do you find that out? So it asks questions for you to ask yourself, your partner, your provider, whoever, so that you can fill out the answers for your particular situation and determine, is this right in your situation for you, and feel confident in your choice?
50:57
So I swear I will get that out by the end of the year. I love that. If you guys want that, DM her, email her, tell her to get it done. Cause I know, I don't know about you, but I am so motivated to get these resources out there when women are like, I need this. Yes, yes. So tell her how much you need that. And I think that would be an amazing resource. I don't know of that one that exists like that. No, from what I've done the research on it, yeah, I don't think that there is anything like it because...
51:25
You might find some information on the tests, but you don't find a lot of what I'm putting in there for you to do the work as well. And it'll be a printed resource because I think you actually need it to be printed so that you can go through it, mark things, highlight it, actually write things out. So yeah, I'm hoping that, I mean, who knows if I'll actually get it done by the end of the year, but keep an eye out. And especially if you're, if you're on my email list, you will
51:54
I will find out first, but I will also be talking about it on Instagram because people are still asking me, I've been working on it for like more than two years with like huge breaks in between. And people will still message me and be like, I'm finally pregnant. Did you write that yet? And I'm like, Oh yeah, I'm getting, I swear I'm getting done. Maybe by your next baby? No. Yeah, maybe then. Yes. Well, thank you, Sarah, for coming on. Check out her resources. Give her a DM, send her a DM, get on her.
52:21
list and and yeah she just posted so much invaluable information on her instagram page as well so thank you for sharing did you want to share anything else well i forgot to say i also have a podcast oh yes i forgot and and i and i do interviews with people and now i'm gonna have to interview you and i just also recently started doing like little short episodes because i know it's hard for me sometimes to fit
52:49
like a 60 minute listen in and I have to break it up into like four or five different things. So I started doing little shorty episodes too. And one of those is out today. And I've been trying to do new episodes every Thursday. So yeah, there's some info on there too. What's the name of that podcast? Birth Uprising? Just Birth Uprising. Awesome. I love it when it's all simple like that. Thank you for coming on and sharing and go check out her resources and have an awesome day guys.
53:19
We'll see you next time.
53:23
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Pain Free Birth podcast. If you were encouraged, it would mean so much if you left us a five-star review and shared this with your community. I'd love to connect with you on Instagram at PainFreeBirth. To learn more about the Pain Free Birth e-course, free resources, private coaching, and upcoming events, find out more at painfreebirth.com. See you next week.
