00:05
Hi friends, welcome to the Pain Free Birth podcast. I'm your host, Karen Welton, a certified doula, childbirth educator and mother of three. In this space, we'll hear positive, supernatural and yes, even pain free birth stories from women just like you. We'll explore the deeply spiritual side of childbirth and how God designed women's bodies brilliantly for birth. Let's get started.
00:29
Hi friends and welcome back to the Pain Free Birth podcast. Today I am super excited about our guest Leslie Burris, who is here with me to share her birth stories. You guys are going to want to listen to this one. She has had seven births. So talk about a mama who knows her stuff, who has had many experiences giving birth. She found Pain Free
01:00
I'm not even going to spoil it because I want her to tell the story. So welcome to the show, Leslie. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited and honored to be here. I had no idea when I pulled the trigger on your course two, two years ago, actually almost exactly two years ago, that I would be sitting here getting to share this story. So it's an honor to be here. Thanks for having me. Oh, I'm so happy. Yeah. And I've shared your story on my Instagram. For those of you who may remember, Leslie filmed her birth.
01:28
for 20,000 people to watch it live, which is something I have to commend you for, like so courageous to do. I don't even know if I would have done that. But maybe by your sixth baby, you're like, all right, let's just put it out there. Yeah, well, and I can share a little bit about that. That was actually really intentional. And, you know, people say, there's a really fine line between really awesome
01:58
stupidity. Like, you know what I'm saying? I had to really weigh the options here because, you know, just because you can have a pain free birth doesn't mean you're going to have a risk free birth. Yeah. And so I had to weigh the risk of like, yeah, what if something goes AWOL at the birth and I have thousands of people watching me. And so, but when I bought your course, actually, that was the second time I gave birth on Instagram Live.
02:27
So I gave birth to baby number five on Instagram Live in front of about 3,500 people. And then when I found out I was pregnant again, everybody was like the 3,500, they were like, of course you have to do that again, that was amazing. And so it was actually a really simple decision to make. And my heart behind pressing play or go on Instagram Live was because more women than I have ever met
02:55
they never experienced birth until they're the person giving birth for the first time. And so when I had my first baby, I, you know, I watched all the shows. I'm 40, by the way, I'm 40 years old. And I grew up watching a baby story on TLC, which was all cesareans, by the way, just so you know. We were programmed by TLC that, you know.
03:21
80% of birth is you going to the hospital and you're gonna have a C-section. And so like that was my, I'd never watched my mom give birth, nothing. And so when I, this was my sixth time, by the time I took your course, this was my sixth birth. And I was not only comfortable with birth, but I wanted to give people a picture of what it could be like for them. And I especially have a heart for young girls. My oldest is now gonna be 12.
03:48
And so my kids have had a front row seat to watching birth. I've had all of my babies at home. I did have a stillborn baby in the hospital at 23 weeks. That's another story for another day. But my hospital experience was, you know, for that pregnancy and that particular birth, which was so special and so unique. But 12 years ago, I had my first baby at home unmedicated. And this was before home birth was.
04:15
the rage. All my family thought I was crazy. You know, they I mean, and this was before Instagram had stories or even before Instagram was a thing. Right. So I saw I saw a friend post her birth that she she had a baby at home and she was laying on her couch holding her baby and she's like, I'm gonna go take a nap. And I was 20 weeks pregnant when I saw that and I was like, that's what I'm doing. Like, I don't know what just happened. But I saw myself wanting to do home birth. And so I did. And, you know, fast forward.
04:45
a decade later, I gave birth on Instagram Live because I wanted people to see a birth, and you've mentioned this in your course, birth start to finish is this beautiful ride. And it's unpredictable. And every birth that I've ever experienced has been different. The story is different. But all the physiological things, those were all the same. Right? So the time.
05:14
might have been different, the circumstances may have been different, my experience with motherhood was different, but I wanted women to be able to have the option to watch a woman who is in active labor go all the way through and even watch the golden hour because they don't show that on TLC. Yeah. Right? Certainly not a physiological home birth peaceful.
05:39
birth or anything like that. Yeah, that doesn't exist on TLC. Yeah, and I think we live in a really special day and age with technology is now we can be educators and we have things at our fingertips. But even when I watch people's birth stories, the highlight reel, which is also beautiful. And I'm so glad that there's so many birth reels. Like I wish I would have had that 12 years ago when I was making my decision, you know? But I really, I felt called to.
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show the whole thing so women could see that there was nothing to be afraid of. I love that. I feel like that is such a beautiful gift to women to be able to give them access to that, to like be a fly on the wall and see a true like birth, not just like the highlight reel, the clips where it's like the baby's out, but it's after all the like the hard parts. And so we, I think it's very easy to get this perspective, especially from Instagram and social media
06:39
this just euphoria and ecstasy and pain free, which it absolutely can be, but there's so hard parts. And I love that you're like, I want to give all access. Like you gave the world an all access pass to your birth, which is so cool. Yeah. And having my kids there, like just seeing the questions roll in, like, why is your family there? Why are the kids there? Why is she eating? Why is she drinking? Like, if you've only experienced the medical, yes, if you've only, if you've
07:08
If you've only experienced the allopathic care, then you're just like, what is going on? Why aren't the midwives doing anything? That was my favorite question. Yeah. Why isn't everyone freaking out and running around? Yeah. Like, where's the difference? Why isn't she, yes, like, how do you know if the baby's heart rate is dropping or whatever? It's like, I know, it's crazy, but this is birth. This is how it would have ended, you know? What a great opportunity to inspire women and educate.
07:36
So let's back up just a little bit. You had five other births, all of them home, well, seven total, five of them before finding pain-free birth and filming it for the masses. What were the first five like? Well, I will tell you, my first was about 32 hours start to finish. And I will tell you, I was, as somebody who...
08:02
now cultivates peace on purpose. That birth was nothing about peace. I had no idea what was going on in my body and I braced myself for impact and I know that my labor and birth would have been much shorter had I understood what was going on with my body. Because birth had been something that I'd watched other people do on curated shows where it was just like, it's gonna be terrible, it's gonna be terrible, it's gonna be terrible, it's gonna hurt, you just need to get through it.
08:31
Well, that was the program that I kept coming up with during birth. And every time I would have a surge, I would brace myself. And, um, in fact, my first and like my first birth, I didn't tear or anything. I had a really beautiful experience for it being, you know, something I braced myself for, but I'll tell you that my first birth, I was so nervous about having another baby that I didn't find out the gender of my second born. So I had a carrot dangling in front of me.
08:59
in order to get me ready for labor, because I was afraid to do labor again. Yeah. It was that painful. It was that, well, I just, I wish I could say it was painful. It was just, I was so afraid. I was afraid that every time I had a contraction, something was wrong. That something was wrong with the baby or something was wrong with me. And now my midwives were like amazing flight attendants. You know, when you're flying in an airplane and there's turbulence.
09:29
and you look at the flight attendants, and if they're not flinching, you good. You know what I'm saying? You kind of watch them to, because I'm a terrible flyer, I'll just confess it to everybody. I don't like flying. I don't like turbulence, even though it's normal. It's like hitting a pothole. Listen, that's not a rational thought that I ever have when I'm on an airplane. So I'm always looking towards the flight attendants to make sure, like, if they're just walking up and down the aisle handing out drinks, and this plane is like bouncing everywhere,
09:59
I'm gonna get my peace from those who are grounded. And so what I really loved about my midwives is they, I mean, I remember being so mad. Karen, my midwife was knitting a hat when I was in transition. And I was so offended, but I also, I was like, cause nobody could rescue me, right? I was in the heart, nobody can rescue you. And she was just knitting and, but her peace. You're like, why won't you do something? Yeah.
10:29
And she was like, you're doing great. Like, yes. But I remember that ground. Yeah, it was like really grounding at the same time. Like, OK, I got my piece from my midwife, which was great. But I just remember, you know, every birth from there, the first five births. And thankfully, they got shorter every time. But I still found myself bracing myself for every birth. And somewhere along the line.
10:55
I don't know how you ended up in my feed. Well, I mean, I was pregnant and I was looking at birth videos. So I'm pretty sure that the algorithm gods favored me and they put you in my feed. And I think, I don't think you had even hit a hundred K followers yet. And you were sharing about your class and here was all my thoughts. I'm gonna, I'm literally gonna tell everybody to get your class in a minute because I was like, by the time I found you I'd already given birth five times. They were all.
11:25
beautifully terrible. They were wonderful but painful. They were still beautiful. I mean, I ended up with the full term, beautiful baby, great birthpartum, no terrible. That's a great descriptor for many births, beautiful and terrible all at once. Beautiful but terrible. And I found your course, or it started being promoted to me around the third or fourth month of my pregnancy. And I just was like, that is...
11:53
like I already had five births, I've already done this, I already know what I'm doing. And something triggered when you were, it was something you said or something someone else said probably in one of the testimonies of like, I thought I knew what I was doing, but I realized after I took this course that even though I had done this, you know, a few times, that I didn't know what was going on with my body and I had a much better time with this birth.
12:20
than I did all my other ones. And while she was speaking to me, the whoever was your testimony that day, that was gonna be me. And so, you know, the purchase thing, and I wanna encourage everybody, this is true for every single big purchase you ever make in your life. The question is, are you gonna get your money's worth? And the answer is 1,000%, yes, you're gonna get your money's worth. But once the purchase is over, you get to get to work. And there's so much goodness in that course.
12:49
And I will tell you, it was one video that triggered all of the pain-free birth experience that I had with number six. And that was when you explained the chemical release and how actually fear when it releases cortisol is what creates pain in a contraction. And so my brain, and I'm a cognitive behavioral coach, I coach women how to...
13:18
break up with worry and live from a position of peace. Okay, so this is what I do for my job, which is hilarious. But your coaching, your coaching in that was what helped me to see that there is a process with how your body works and it's in your mind that when you're bracing yourself or you think something is wrong, that this instinct kicks in where, yeah, you're gonna have adrenaline on the scene and it's gonna be painful. And so my brain kind of was like, oh.
13:46
well, that's really practical. I wonder if you weren't afraid. And then you went and taught like how the uterus works and how it actually pulls up. And like my brain just had all this amazing education. And I thought about my other births and I was like, well, surely that's exactly what was going on in every single one of the births that I've had before. So my brain was over here like collecting evidence of how pain-free birth might possibly be true. And I...
14:15
And if I could just encourage those of you guys who follow and you're like, there's no such thing as pain free birth. I get it. And as a cognitive behavioral coach, I will tell you it might be possible that birth potentially could be pain free. And that's where you have to start. What is your that I love that. What was your first thought when you first saw my account or the name or the idea that birth could be pain free?
14:41
Well, it's very triggering, to be honest, and that's beautiful in the marketing world, because it rubs up against the massive belief that there's no such thing as pain-free birth. That's what we've been hearing for years and years and years and years. Every birth is painful. Birth is just painful. Brace yourself. It's our lot in life as women. And so when you came at it and you were like, and again, it's polarizing, but it's good, because you get people's attention. And you're going to always have people who...
15:09
tell you it's never going to be pain free. And guess what? They'll make that come true. Right, right. I'm like, that's true for you. Yes, that's true for you. You really want to attach to that belief and cling to that, that will absolutely be true for you. Yes, as somebody who is a certified brain person over here, who like helps people unblock for a living, that is true. Like your brain, once it makes an agreement,
15:40
on a mission to collect all the evidence to support that truth. Yeah. And so that's, um, and knowing that your birth, what your, your birth course was like, Oh, it's me. Hi. I'm the problem. It's me. I'm bracing myself. And so what was really cool is I, I was like, okay, so here's how my body's working. Here is the oxytocin that is going to be released. If I trust, if I.
16:06
It might be possible, and this is where I started, and this could help a lot of your clients who are on the fence. It might be possible that when your body is having a surge, that you will be met with everything you need to get through it without any pain. And that's where I had to start, was like, it's possible that if I relax,
16:31
and I entertain the idea that it might be possible that nothing is wrong, but everything is going right. That thought helps me immediately relax and I experience peace. And then before you know it, the contraction of the surge has passed. And you're like, oh, that's weird. It didn't even hurt. Yep. So when I first experienced that, I thought it was a false. I thought it was false. Like, oh, that was just like a false contraction.
17:00
And then it did it again. Yeah. And so what's funny is when I was giving birth to my six on Instagram, I was having fun during transition. I'm sorry. That's I'm going to repeat that. I was having fun during transition. Now in the past, when I got to the transition, the transition phase of like, I can't do this anymore, or this is getting really intense because I had built up so much evidence that, wow.
17:29
the hormones really are moving me through these contractions and I don't feel anything. It's possible that as they grow more intense, I can have more of that. Yes. It might be possible if there's more of that available to me. And so that was the thought that was coming in my mind while I was in transition. And what was really great is like, I knew exactly where my body was. Yeah. In like, I never had to be checked.
17:54
I remember getting out of the shower in front of 20,000 people on Instagram and people being like, is she okay? And I'd be like, yeah, I guarantee you I'm at a nine right now. I'm going to go ahead and get in the pool. And I was still, you know how they tell you, you'll know you're in transition if you're not able to speak. I would even like to encourage women here that it's possible that birth can be so pleasant that you can talk during transition. I love everything about this and about what you're saying. Yes.
18:23
It might be possible that like transition was, I was so present with my family while I was in birth. And here's the thing, oxytocin compounds when you allow it to be in the room. So like my husband being like where we were laughing and the kids were laughing and everybody, nobody in the room was panicking. Nobody in the room had this thought of like, something is wrong with mom. And so because that wasn't even in the room, it was like,
18:52
just everything compounded. The love in the room just continued to snowball until it was like, yeah. And I'll tell ya. And I'll let you take the reins from here. But I remember when my son was born and everybody was watching, his cord was wrapped around his neck twice. It was wrapped around his thigh and it was wrapped around his shoulders. And his cord wasn't pulsating anymore. It was already a spaghetti noodle. It was done.
19:22
But here's what's going on. Like when he came out, he was already pink. The blood was already out of the placenta. He was completely wrapped in the spaghetti string of a thing. But because there was so much calm in the room, nobody panicked. We scooped him out of the water and it was the longest minute, but we all like, if you're a birth educator, you know.
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that it can take upwards of a minute for the baby to take their first breath. It's not a problem unless you make it a problem, okay? And so everybody just allowed for this minute to happen and sure enough, he took his first breath, he cried, it was beautiful. But the purpose of me telling you that is one of the main things that I get from women in my Instagram and when I'm talking about birth is like, well, what if the cord is wrapped around the baby or what if something goes bad? And those thoughts are exactly what are going to make birth painful for you.
20:17
Totally. Because if you're bracing yourself for something to be wrong with your baby, then you can't go all in on your love for your baby. Going all in on your love for your baby allows you to open up and allows you to have a pain-free birth. And it was your course that helped me rewire some of the thoughts that I had about birth before I ran into your course. And so I do, I tell my friends, you know they all come to me at the DM, they're like.
20:44
It's kind of a big investment. Should I do it? I'm like, yeah, 100% because you know what? You can always get more money. You will never be able to redo this birth. Totally. It's true. You only get one chance to break that baby. I have literally gotten my $400 back.
21:07
70 times over since that birth, but I got the birth that I'd hoped to get and I couldn't have redone that. And like you can't get that birth experience back. And so in order to really prepare yourself and prepare your heart and your mind and understanding your body, they don't teach you this in sex education in school. They don't teach you, you know, they tell you what your parts are, but they don't tell you in depth.
21:32
Like, here's what to expect. They just show you a woman giving birth and being like, don't have sex. So that doesn't happen to you. You're like, that's your birth control. Scare you, scare all the teenagers into abstinence. Yeah. So like, okay, I get it. We don't want a bunch of teen pregnancies. I get that. But then again, this is why I went live because I wanted people to see, and I wanted my children to see that there's nothing to be afraid of here. And I loved, I think, I think the $400 quote was like,
22:02
from your course was like, you don't panic when you have to go poop. Your body knows what to do. Yeah. And it's possible that your body was designed to push out a baby or eject a baby naturally, just as simply as you go to the bathroom. And for me, that was like, okay, I believe that because I don't ever think about those things. Like I don't brace myself for those things. And so,
22:28
I just want to say thank you for doing your work in the world, especially in the era that we're in now where everything is like, if you have a sneeze, you're going to die. It's just a breath of fresh air to be around women who were the flight attendants of birth. People are looking around and looking to you and looking to midwives and looking to birth workers to say, am I going to be okay? Are we going to be okay? And
22:55
Yeah, you may run up against women who come at you and say like, it's never going to be possible. And you do. At the end of the day, you have to be really okay with people and understanding that their brain has decided and that's it. You can't change their mind. But for those of you guys who are like, is it possible that you could have a pancreas birth? Yeah, it's 100% possible. Coming from someone who didn't believe it was possible for five births and now it's given birth beyond that. And it's amazing.
23:24
And for the people who say, well, oh, well, it's just like, oh, it's just subjective. It's just like an analogy, you know, like it's just how you frame it. What would you say to that? Having experienced seven births, is it just like the way you're just like reframing the pain and it's really painful that you're just not admitting it or something? I see what you're saying. Yeah, I see what you're saying, because I had a couple of people. So I gave birth again a few weeks ago. Like I'm my baby's eight weeks old now. So I had.
23:51
my seventh baby on Instagram Live, I think there was like 35,000 people. Now, that birth, I laid down my peace a lot and I had more pain at that birth. However, it wasn't because I didn't know, I knew how to get out of the pain. I was equipped. Your class taught me how to get out of the pool of panic. Okay? But the thing is, is like, for me, I had to, it was more intense than I'd ever experienced because...
24:21
Kat, Kat, like, I just want to tell you people, every birth is different and every baby throws you a surprise and they get their own story. I have seven children and they're all unique and they're all like, they all fight for attention and you're just never gonna have the same birth twice. And it's perfectly beautiful. We could do an episode on each birth, I believe. Oh, absolutely. But the idea, so I had somebody ask me, like I noticed that you, the people who watched.
24:48
my last two births and they were like, you were very different at this birth than you were at the one where you took the class. And so I think this was somebody who was like, pulling wanted to pull the trigger. She was collecting evidence on why it wasn't gonna work, right? Like you can't have a baby. But here's the thing, I didn't just reframe it to answer your question. Like, oh, you're just reframing it so that way, you can make it sound better than it was or whatever it is. People like, no.
25:16
I literally made a cognitive choice to lay down my piece during birth because I entertained thoughts of something's wrong here. Yeah. Okay, that's not reframing. That's me being a full human being who is tempted to be afraid. There were some things going on at that birth that I had never experienced before. And so even with all this incredible experience that I came into this birth with,
25:46
This one was throwing me a curve ball and I, you were watching me lay down my piece and have more pain. But I also, I had everything I needed to get out of the pool of panic, so to speak. Yeah. And I love that. I actually love the parts of the story where it was painful, where we get afraid, where we have these human experiences and emotions and we hit those walls and we have the situation present ours.
26:12
self to us, whether that's like, Oh, is something wrong with my baby? Oh, is something interrupting me? Is there somebody's energy is messing up with this? Am I exhausted because it's been 35 hours? Like so many things, so many curveballs come and go. I actually love these stories even more, honestly, than just like the sparkly, pain free birth ones, because it shows women like how much control we really have of our thoughts and how we can actually get break that cycle and get out of it.
26:40
Which I think builds more confidence in a woman to go, hey, I overcame that. That was hard. Oh, yeah. And the thing is, I was equipped to handle that birth. Yeah, it didn't derail your birth. Yes. Totally. And there's a difference because, again, coming back to that whole, well, what if the class doesn't work? Well, everything works as well as you work it. And again, I'm sure that there are people who
27:07
you know, buy things that think are gonna work and they decided in advance it's not gonna work anywhere and they're just gonna go out to prove it. That's true for anything you sign up for. But I just, I was so grateful because, so there came a point in my last birth where she, the midwife was noticing that I was having more blood and she was like, I just, what if the placenta is detaching? Okay, I'm gonna get like really real here. I know that because a home birther, if they
27:36
start murmuring the word transfer. Sometimes transfer does not mean, it means more risk actually. Yeah. Sometimes. Because the people who are trained to be first responders, they're not trained in birth. True. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Remember that ladies. They can drive fast. Keep your midwife close if you have to call EMS. They can drive fast.
28:03
They can administer oxygen. They have things on hand. Those are great, but it doesn't mean that all is well. And so anyway, the midwife was telling me, she was like, I don't know, and I'm not gonna cause panic. And she was putting the ball in my court. And I was like, listen, I had a cervical lip. For all though you saw, I just wanna say, I see you cervical lip ladies. We know, we know.
28:27
You know, high five, fist bump. We, there's like a whole cervical lip club that I didn't know about. It's a club that you don't want to be in. Don't be in the cervical lip club. But I remember I had that lip for a long time and I asked my midwife, I said, will you please hold back my cervix and I will push. Now, normally in physiological birth, you don't have to do that. Okay. You baby just comes out.
28:51
But I also understood my body so much that I understood there wasn't a problem. I actually got to partner with my body to make things move along just in case there was something like that going on. We didn't know. However, I love the fact that I got the choice to, like, we're gonna move through this anyway. Yeah, like the baby's gonna come out. Whether I let the baby.
29:17
eject itself physiologically or I push. That's true when I go poop too. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, let's be honest, there are stuff, I don't always have a magical, you know, I have a hard time sometimes, very rarely, okay? Physiologically, it's usually very smooth and good and we don't think about it and it's fine. But in this moment and in this birth, it required me to be a little bit more aggressive. And I never tore, nothing was wrong, okay?
29:45
I was working with my body and that brought me a lot of peace and even in pushing, it was pain free, even though I was doing more work than I was used to in other births. But do you see, like, it wasn't a problem unless I made it a problem. Because I didn't make it a problem, it was pain free. And so no, to answer the long-winded question, do you have to reframe it to make it pain free? No. It's just, do you trust? Do you...
30:14
do you want to trust that your body might know how to give birth? And that's the question. That's the hinge question that every pregnant woman has to ask themselves is, it might be possible that my body was designed to give birth. Yeah, I love it. And we all have to like face that and either say yes or say no. And there's a lot of doctors who will tell you, actually you don't, your body is broken. And you know.
30:42
It doesn't know what to do. And I would just. That would be way too much brokenness. A lot of too too too many broken females in the world. I call BS on that, which is why I love what you do is you're you're out there with a sword and a shield saying I call BS. Yeah, don't get me started on the your body is broken. Oh, that gets me so bad. I'm like.
31:05
I know! Yeah, no. It's true. And you're right though, there's a generation of women that believe that, and they go into birth believing that, and then they have traumatic births, which then gives them more evidence that it's true. And so what I teach is very triggering to many women who are in that spot, or women who've just heard that that's the story that birth is to everybody. They see the horror stories. And so I love...
31:33
I love that you allowed it to be a possibility despite having all the evidence to tell you otherwise and five births for crying out loud. Like, yeah, you're not just like a first time. I'm like, well, yeah, like, you, you know what pain feels like. And that's what I tell them. I'm like, we don't, we know what pain feels like. We're not just like making it up in our head that this is pain, pain free. And I, I love that you're- Okay. So I have to, I have to bring something up real quick because it just popped into my head.
32:01
There's this thing, the birth comb is making, have you seen this? Yeah. Like to hold onto a comb? Yeah. Yeah, okay. I had to do that in my second birth because it was so painful and distracted me. But I would tell you ladies, the comb is nice, but comb your hair, you won't need it. Like, truly, like, it really, like, I get it to distract yourself, but even that is so laced in fear. That's a brace yourself.
32:26
It's true. And that's why I don't teach it. There's a lot of birth courses that teach that as like the method of pain coping. But if you have oxytocin... You're just transferring your pain. Yeah, you're just right. And if you have pain... You're hurting your hand. Exactly. And you're hurting your vagina. And I'm not like knocking the women that use this. It can be very effective. I did it. Well, you didn't knock me. I did it in my second birth and nobody was selling. I grabbed a brush.
32:53
And my hand hurt for weeks after that, by the way. Right. Because you're just transferring your anxiety into your hand. And it's this, you're still operating out of the same energy of, I have to brace for it. This is going to hurt me. Something's wrong. Yeah. And it can help if you can't get out of the fear, tension, pain cycle on your own. Totally. But there's a better way. If you have oxytocin, you don't need a comb.
33:20
You don't need to brace anything because your body is having a hormonal high, which your explanation of that was brilliant. You said oxytocin compounds. And I just have to circle back to that because I'm like, yes, yes, yes. That is so true. Oxytocin is like compound interest. The longer you facilitate and release oxytocin and you can do that when you know how there are strategic things you can do in your childbirth.
33:50
to know how am I going to release Marks Throson and what path am I going down? Am I going down the path of fear and resistance and brace for it and, oh no, this is gonna hurt me. Or am I going down joy, peace, ecstasy, laughter? And it's a choice every third. Every time, every time. Even when birth throws you a curve ball and you have a cervical lip and you're bleeding and you're like, what am I gonna do? It's a fork in the road, man. Yup. Did it? Oh.
34:15
I know that and I love how people are like, again, are you going to use that to prove that birth is not? I was like, no, it was just a tangible fork in the road decision every surge. Right. Do I choose oxytocin or do I choose adrenaline? Cortisol, which one? Cortisol or oxytocin? You get to pick. That to me is so empowering. So empowering. You get to choose. I will tell you, I drink.
34:43
cortisol a few times. I am not perfect. And that's okay. No shame. No shame in that. No. I've had those moments where my births were like, oh, that was a painful contraction. I can admit that. Right. And the thing is when you do admit it, you're more likely to grab for the oxytocin the next surge. Yeah. And you know what to do because that sends a message that tells me information. This is what I teach you in my course.
35:11
It doesn't mean having experiencing pain in your contractions doesn't mean you failed. It doesn't mean you're doing it wrong. It doesn't mean your body's broken. It's giving you helpful information for that moment. And your job is to decipher what the message of that pain is because pain always is a messenger. That's all it is. It's neutral. It's not good or bad or evil. It's neutral. It's sending your brain a message of something is out of balance. So what do you need to do to get back into balance?
35:40
So that's information that you as a woman get to go, okay, how am I out of, out of balance here? How do I get back into homeostasis and back to peace? And we get to make that choice because the physiology is true no matter what happens in the earth. It's true. Like the hormones, the hormones are still playing in an undercurrent of your labor in every single birth, no matter where you are, no matter what's happening, whether an emergency happens, the physiology is still true.
36:10
And depending on which fork or road you take, you can make an emergency more dangerous by choosing fear and releasing more adrenaline and cortisol. Oh, I have to say something. And it's probably for someone, it's for someone else listening to this right now. Listen, I'll tell you something my midwife told me when I was having my first baby. And it's possible why hospital births tend to be more painful than home births is...
36:36
you your cervix is a sphincter muscle and the same sphincter muscles like your butt when you go poop like you know how you like you clench or you're nervous or you're there are people in your birthing space who make you nervous and you clench and you hold things in there you can feel people's thoughts you can feel when people are
37:01
annoyed or
37:30
that needs to be on the scene when the child is born. And so when you, again, bright lights, doctors you don't trust, nurses you don't know, crabby nurses, this is true even if you're doing home birth. If you have a worker who's there who's just in a bad mood, you're gonna clinch up. You're gonna pick up on that. You're gonna be focused, they're gonna be like, is she okay, are we doing this, are we okay? And like women are so, so good at picking up relational and thoughts and feelings of other people.
37:59
And what it really takes is a woman who says, I know you're gonna have thoughts. I know everybody's gonna have thoughts here, but my thoughts are going to be the ones that dominate and set the thermostat at the birth. And that is what I love about your course is it's empowering women to become that person to say, and it's not rude. Being the influential one in the room during birth is not rude. It's not boastful. It's not prideful. It's not like get out. It's not like...
38:28
feminism, you know, of like, watch me do this. It's like, it's this understanding that we're bringing a human into the world and we can control and we can dominate this space to allow them to come into the world from a position of peace and love and joy. And like, we get, we can set the tone for that. And I think that that's what allows your cervix to open up better and faster and more beautifully, you know, like you said.
38:57
Physiological birth is happening, but sometimes we do make that physiological process harder when we're afraid to give birth in front of certain people or in certain circumstances, and that can make birth more difficult. 100%. Your birth team has a huge impact on your birth and their belief in you and their status that you give them. Is this an expert? Is this someone with a lot of power? Am I giving away my power? Am I putting them on a pedestal and putting their opinion?
39:25
their fear, their concern, their discomfort above my own inner peace. And here's how I say that. I love the way you, I love how you explained it. I say you can control, you can't always control your external environment. I mean, that's a, you can in your birth preparation, a hundred percent. And she's who you give birth with, where you give birth, but you can't always control every, everything happening around you, but you can always control your internal environment. And that's
39:53
That's what I teach is how to control your internal environment, no matter where you are and what happens around you. And that's the ultimate power is going, oh, this person has a funky energy. I'm recognizing that and how it's affecting my body and my thoughts. I'm going to take captive of those thoughts and I'm going to intentionally focus on this truth that I know to be true. And having that awareness is like the ultimate power boost to know, like, I have this much power and control over my internal environment.
40:22
And I can make that shift. Oh, that's so good. Yeah, so my, you remember I told you at the beginning of this podcast how my son was wrapped in his cord like 100 times? So my husband, God love him, he was so afraid that that was gonna happen again. And I sat down with him and I was like, it's hard as a coach not to coach your husband, I don't recommend this, but it happens from time to time. And I said, you know what, I love you. And if this is gonna be too, if you're going to be consumed,
40:50
by the cord wrapping situation, I'm gonna ask you to get out while I'm pushing. I'm just gonna ask you to step out of the room because I know that this is tender for you and it's possible it might be traumatic for you and I see you and I recognize you and I also want you to know that I have a big work ahead of me and I choose to believe everything is gonna be okay that the cord, even if it's wrapped in.
41:15
You know, most of the time, almost all my kids had the cord wrapped around their neck. This was not his first rodeo. That one that one stuck with him a little bit. And, you know, and you know this, we bring in our experiences to all the birth. I have to do coaching and, you know, for all my births, I have to unpack them, share my story and really go through about, you know, I don't want to bring in past births into the new birth. Every birth is its own. But I just remember looking at my husband and saying, I know that you're afraid of this. I said, but it's really important that.
41:43
you're not in the room with me afraid in that moment. Yeah. So I called him to courage and I said, it might be possible that the baby's gonna be okay. Are you willing to lay down that thought that you're having and are you willing to entertain that it might be possible? The cord is not a problem this time. And he was like, that was his choice. Yeah. So I have a choice, my husband has a choice. I love that. And I think it was really great.
42:11
is we could talk about that and say, like, if you choose to believe something's wrong, I'm gonna ask you kindly to just step out while we're in that spot, while we're in that part. But if you're willing to choose that it's possible everything's gonna be okay, then I want you there, catch the baby, you know? Like, and what was great is he was like, no, you're right. I am totally going dark and twisty right now. And my fear is going to impact you. And like it called him into.
42:39
Yeah, it brought him self-awareness. Yeah. But what a beautiful way to set a healthy boundary in your birth with not just a birth attendant, but your husband. I want him there. Yeah. I just want him there. It makes me think how many women allow their partners' fear to dictate their choices in labor. How many husbands do you know say, we're never giving birth at home? That was my husband.
43:05
That was my husband, by the way. He grilled our first midwife. I did traditional OB. We were gonna do hospital birth and all that. And I was like, I wanna have a baby at home. And he went in there and he was like, how many women have you killed? How many times you've been sued? How many babies have died? Like he gave, he asked her all the things. And as soon as he, like now he helps other men, you know, get on board with home birth. He has sold home birth to so many of our husband's friends.
43:30
And that's a beautiful gift they bring, right? Like they are protectors. They protect. Protector and provider. Yeah, and what a good thing that he did. And also, I love that you called him out on it lovingly and just said, like, I know you have this. I can feel it. It's an energy thing. And I don't want that in my birth space. You can have that if you want to keep it. Totally. You just can't have it in the room with me, because I know how it will affect me. And I love that you had the.
43:56
self-awareness encouraged to set that boundary and that it caused him to like self, you know, analyze and go, oh, is this fear even serving me? Because maybe I can lay it down, right? Well, I mean, so I'm a Christian. And so when I look to my husband, he is to be my provider. And it's more than just providing me a house and money and things and stuff. He's to provide a sense of safety. And he wasn't in a place of safety.
44:24
And so me calling him into safety as his helper, okay, I was helping him come back into a place where he could cultivate safety and dominance and goodness. And to be that protector for me again, but as long as he wasn't willing to provide that kind of protection, I was like, just wait outside for a minute. I'll be just a minute, you know what I mean? Like, it wasn't rude. It wasn't boastful. It wasn't like you're wrong for being afraid.
44:51
No, it shows so much self-awareness and I wish more women did that. Women. I wish more women had the self-awareness and courage to do that, to say to a nurse who's stressing and freaking out, you know what? Your energy is really hindering my thoughts, my mental, you know, my zone, my energy here, my zen, whatever you want to call it. Can you just give me a break and wait outside? Or can you, you know, I need some space. Can you compose yourself? Isn't that funny how we think that that's rude?
45:20
Right. We're right. We're so trained to even in labor, I have to accommodate everybody else. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, it's not rude to say that it's actually, this is again, you don't get to redo your birth. And I think a lot of birth trauma could be eradicated if we had that safe space to, to say those things with kindness and saying like, Hey, and it's no problem that people have fear. Okay. Right. You're tempted to fear every day. Me too. Like
45:49
I mean, we just don't need to pick up other people's fears. Yeah. It's just saying like, hey, no. Like we have enough of our own. Yeah. I don't need to carry yours too. Yeah. We need less fear in this moment. Could it, would it be okay? And this is my favorite thing to ask. Would it be okay if I asked you to just step outside for a minute? That's a great way to say it. You're not bad. You're not bad for being afraid right now. Write that down, ladies. Yeah. You're not bad for being afraid. Yeah. It's just, the fear is not going to be helpful.
46:18
in the work that we need to do. Say that one more time how you phrased that was so perfect. Would it be okay? Would it be okay? Like it is okay to be afraid. It's just not going to be helpful for you to be afraid in this moment. Yeah and that's a great tool to advocate for anything. Would it be okay if you stepped outside? Would it be okay if we waited an hour and then reassessed?
46:47
I mean nurses and birth workers all of us have bad days, right? You can get in a Knocked down drag out fight with your husband and show up to a birth and guess who's showing up with that PO energy Like they're mad at their husband and they show up at a birth you can say like hey It looks like it looks like you're kind of mad looks like you're thinking some really crazy things Do you mind taking those crazy things out for a second? Recalibrate I'm not saying you're bad for having those feelings. I'm saying like would it be okay if we recalibrated?
47:14
our thoughts for a minute so we could feel a little bit different because we're having a baby here and this is supposed to be fun and beautiful and full of joy. And yes, 100%. And your partner can do this too for you if they know how to do it and they feel confident stepping up to the plate to say something when you're in labor land, mama, and you don't want to be telling the nurse to leave, right? Because we shouldn't have to do that, but it's necessary. Speaking of that, speaking of that, my husband, he is the kind of guy that will call someone out.
47:43
And he knows I'm uncomfortable with that. And so I will ask him, even in that moment, like if you see a nurse doing something you don't like, would it be okay if you, you know that I'm gonna freak out if I see you doing that. Like you, I know you, you know me, okay? So- And I know that you know that I know. Would it be okay if I know? Because I know, like my husband is like, my wife hates that and I have to tell her immediately that she hates it. And I'm like, but I don't like it when you're-
48:13
trying to protect me so Papa bear like, like, so like, would it be okay if you took those conversations out? Like we've had these talks, like I love my husband, he would do anything for me. And I know that that's his way of showing me love, but I don't like conflict. I don't like that. And so he knows that we can have those conversations over here. Yeah, so yeah, so, you know, I get it. Like, isn't it so multifaceted? Like humans are amazing, you know? We're just so.
48:41
And the more you dive into the physiology, the more you're like, Oh, that's what was going on in my other birth. And that's why this happened. And that's why my body stalled. And that's why that was painful. So it's like the brilliance and wisdom of our bodies are like, I'll never get bored of it and I'll geek out about the physiology and the science of birth all day, cause it's not just like a, Oh, positive thinking like.
49:07
No, it's not. It is science. Like, no, it's saying like it's not woo woo. Again, it's possible you're it might be possible that your body knows how to do this. That's not woo woo. That is questioning your narrative. Yeah. And how your narrative can play out in your birth and that they're actually connected because I think so many women don't even consider that your birth narrative, your mindset will affect.
49:34
how your labor unfolds and how you experience birth. That's, I mean, that's like physiology 101 is just simply. Brace yourself means, yeah, you're clenching your sphincter muscles, right? You clench, you don't open up and allow a baby to come down. You're like, oh no, brace yourself. We're gonna- Hold it in. That's like- So your cervix has to work against you and it's like, I have to do the job. Exactly, right, right. I have to open and you're making it really hard to do my job. Exactly.
50:02
The universe is like, give me a break, would you loosen up? And it's going back to your point of like holding in like poop. Like we all know those people who can't poop at somebody else's house. Why? Because of anxiety. It's the same. Right. I can't handle what you might think about me if you smell my poop. Like I just, you know, like it's it's okay. Fine. Well, then you're going to be you're they're torturing your body. And that moment. Yeah, it's the same. We really got to go. That's what we talk about the course.
50:31
But even going back to your... So good. Going back to the... And then it's not just like there's the fear, tension, pain cycle, right? Then there's the oxytocin. And when you tap into that, this is the area that I feel like is limitless in birth. And you described it so beautifully where you were like, I was having fun in transition. And the oxytocin compounds. And...
51:00
And the fact that you can even be in transition and be laughing and talking. I remember cracking jokes and thinking to myself, this is crazy. Like I'm not supposed to be having this much fun, but that's what happens when you intentionally release oxytocin and it's compounding throughout your labor. So that by the time you get to transition, you have such a surge of it. You don't like, you don't have to wait until the baby is born.
51:28
to experience the birth high if you're releasing and compounding that oxytocin throughout your whole birth. And what you shared, your testimony of that was like a beautiful example of what's possible. And I feel like we're just starting to like tap into that realm of the impossible and what is actually possible in labor because so few of us have actually been able to go there. You know, like, I feel like the pain, like,
51:55
Not getting out of the pain cycle is just step one. But if we can teach women how to have ecstatic birth and have these out of body experiences. I have a book on myself called, oh, I can't reach it because my headphones are on, it's called Orgasmic Birth. I love that book. I love that book, yeah. There's a whole documentary too. It's the same principle. It's compounding your oxytocin and that there's actually ways to do that.
52:21
Thank you for sharing that as just a testimony because I feel like more women need to hear that. Not only that it just doesn't have to be painful and that caveat, it's totally okay if it is, just to your own testimony, not an issue. Just take it and make your decision, which way am I going to go with it? But also that you can have ecstasy and joy in labor and actually enjoy it. I remember my midwife asked me that. She's like, how are you feeling about birthright? Like she said, well, what do you...
52:48
what she said if you had your perfect birth, she said my husband and I don't, and what do you envision your birth being like this time around? And my husband said, oh, I imagine it's gonna be a lot of fun. We're really excited. And she was like, she kinda gave this look like, I don't usually fill my form out to put fun at a birth. And she was very intrigued by that. And I think that, again, if you can only have what you want if you believe what you want might be possible.
53:18
I love that. That's so beautiful. I feel like that right there is like possible. Yeah. Yeah, you might, you might be able to have fun at your birth. Maybe if you want to. It's an invitation. That's what I always say. Like birth is presenting to us. Possible.
53:40
Right. There's no shame. Nobody's going to judge you and like check the box. Oh, you had a pain free birth or you didn't or you got the epidural or you didn't. Like there's no award. There's no award. There's an award you get as a baby at the end. Right. It's not a goal. Like the goal isn't to have like a pain free birth or whatever. You're like putting that thing is on your pedestal. The goal is to truly understand and be empowered in what your body is capable of. And I feel like there's and enjoy it like.
54:09
Yeah, you can. You can enjoy it. So thank you for sharing your testimonies, your stories. I'm sure we could go on and geek out about this for days, especially with seven births to talk about. I'm sure I'll see you again in a couple of years. I thank you so much for having me on here. And y'all don't hesitate on getting the course.
54:32
You want to have fun, you got to get empowered first. You got to learn how your body works. And Karen, you did such a wonderful job. Thank you for investing your time and energy and the resources it takes to even create a course like that and host it all the time and promote it. Like she's putting her money where her mouth is, y'all. It's not free to do what she's doing. And just thank you because I had a pain-free birth thanks to you and what you did. So thanks for stepping up to the plate and for advocating for so many women.
55:01
I wouldn't be here having this testimony had you not done that. So thank you. Well, thank you for sharing and for sharing your birth experience with the world. It's so important. You know, I don't. Oh, Instagram took that birth down, but you can go watch the other one. They do. Of course they did. Why am I surprised? Of course they did. You'll find it. Well, yeah, you guys can find at least the recent one. Which one is on there? The number six or number seven? The last number seven's on her on her account.
55:31
Leslie, two underscores, Burris, B-U-R-R-I-S. I'll put it all in the show notes so you can find her. Leslie has so many incredible resources. By the way, I love your recipes that you post. You guys make sure you follow her on Instagram because she is just such a beautiful woman that shares her gifts with the world. Whether that's parenting or birth or home cooking.
55:56
constantly saving the recipes you share like, okay, I gotta make that. And you make it look so beautiful and easy. It's great. So make sure you go follow her, watch her births. She so generously shares that vulnerable moment with us and there's so much to learn. I love it. I mean, in the last one, it just, it was like that baby came out. You didn't even know it happened cause it was off camera. And then all of a sudden it's like right there by your face. I'm like, she just, she did it again. You gotta watch it.
56:24
Awesome. I love that. I even made that into a reel because I was like, man, water birth is easy on Instagram because nobody can see anything, you know, but when you give birth by land, it's a whole other story. I wasn't going to show everybody. That required some, yeah, smart camera angles for sure. Yeah, camera angles, but yeah. You're such a delight. Thanks for letting me be here and take up some of your space. I love you. You're welcome back anytime. Thank you.
56:53
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Pain Free Birth podcast. If you were encouraged, it would mean so much if you left us a five-star review and shared this with your community. I'd love to connect with you on Instagram at PainFreeBirth. To learn more about the Pain Free Birth e-course, free resources, private coaching, and upcoming events, find out more at painfreebirth.com. See you next week.
